Poltergeist question

[Mach_5]

Just wanted to check and make sure Persistent Distraction works the way it looks to me like it works... if it is cast and a good chunk of my own crew is within the aura, I could choose to tie (fail) the resist with all of them and would then be forced to activate them only after my opponent's entire crew is finished?

[karn987]

I'm pretty sure Persistent Distraction is supposed to be in relation to the controller of the models inside it. Ie if you have models in it, it's you could not activate them untill you activated all your other models. And the same would go for me if I had any in it, I could not activate them untill I have already activated the rest of my models.

Otherwise it wouldn't really make a lot of sense mechanically. It would break a lot of what the game is built upon as far as activations (mainly being you must always activate a model each time it's your turn to activate if you have any left who have not activated.

[Teal]

Actually, no, Mach_5 is right about this one. If you notice on Incite and Pacify, the wording goes to great length to say that the models affected must activate before/after any other unaffected models in their crew. Persistent Distraction merely states that the models affected cannot activate until everyone not affected has. There is no "in their crew" in that the wording there.

I've found that a very powerful tactic is to use the Poltergeist to force your opponent to activate all of their models first, and then use models like to target Pandora with your own models to slingshot her across the board and start disabling the enemy. Throw in the Doppleganger, and you'll probably get initiative next turn as well, and by then most of their crew should be falling back or dead.

[Mach_5]

Except that Incite and Pacify have similar effects but they state that the target must activate either before or after any other model in its Crew. Persistent Distraction just says they cannot activate until all other models outside the aura have activated.

It's a similar situation to when a crew is able to mass companion a bunch of stuff; sure it gets to activate a bunch of models before the opponent but the downside is then you're out of activations and now your opponent has his way with you for the rest of the turn.

[Mach_5]

ninja'd!

[karn987]

Actually, no, Mach_5 is right about this one. If you notice on Incite and Pacify, the wording goes to great length to say that the models affected must activate before/after any other unaffected models in their crew. Persistent Distraction merely states that the models affected cannot activate until everyone not affected has. There is no "in their crew" in that the wording there.

I've found that a very powerful tactic is to use the Poltergeist to force your opponent to activate all of their models first, and then use models like to target Pandora with your own models to slingshot her across the board and start disabling the enemy. Throw in the Doppleganger, and you'll probably get initiative next turn as well, and by then most of their crew should be falling back or dead.

I can't agree, it doesn't seem correct to me at all and I don't recall ever seeing this question come up before. What that would mean is you could screw over someone to not get a single activation untill you have activated your entire crew. It screams of broken the way your suggesting it works.

Can we get a Marshal to rule on this? Sketch? Keltheos?

[Teal]

If you think about it, you're never actually going to be able to force them to activate all of their models before you after the first turn. And if you try to pull that off when the enemy crew is in striking range of you, a good chunk of your models are going to end up dead before they can activate. It's only effective use in my opinion is alpha striking with Pandora first turn, as you're never going to be able to catch your entire enemies crew in the aura, and then have them all fail to resist. At casting 4, they're either going to simply block the spell, or the Poltergeist will be shot dead before it can reach their lines.

[Q'iq'el]

I can't agree, it doesn't seem correct to me at all and I don't recall ever seeing this question come up before. What that would mean is you could screw over someone to not get a single activation untill you have activated your entire crew. It screams of broken the way your suggesting it works.

Can we get a Marshal to rule on this? Sketch? Keltheos?

How is that different to Companion (Family)? Especially that it's limited by the range of the ?

In the end, doing that has exactly the same drawbacks as using companion to alpha-strike. What you gain at first, you lose later on.

[karn987]

You make a fair point, it's just a very strange ability. I'd still really like a Marshal's confirmation on it.

[AvatarForm]

Why hasnt this be risen earlier? Surely it would have been errata'd...

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Someone did ask a similar question but no marshal stepped in.

Maybe time to re-ask the question in the rules forum.

[SnG]

This is the only thread i could find that starts to address this question,

If i have Pandora companion with Poltergeist, and then Activate Pandora and Successful cast incite a opponents Model and choose not to take the Incite action again, that model must now activate next in that crew, but then activating the Poltergeist it moves up and places that model in Persistent Distraction (the book i looked at shows no resist to the aura, and unfortunately i don't have a V2 Card for Poltergeist, so this is a bit from memory) Aura, what happens? that model must activate next, but can not activate until all other models outside the aura have activated?

[mpangelu]

There is no v2 Card that I can find, ( you should see a similar posting of mine asking about this, and I'm the one who gave the example of what the OP is talking about) And the card that is out has an aura listed on the front but pulse on the inside. I can't imagine why it would be an aura. But again, it is similar to family but it forces your opponent to do an alpha strike instead of you choosing to do so. And that is why I don't feel it is right but I can find nothing to state otherwise.

[Fading Memory]

It's totally legit. To further the Incite/Pacify comments, those actions clearly state Enemy model. The V1's used to target any model but where changed in the V2 to target only enemy models.

Companion is more broken than Persistent Distraction because with Companion you don't have to cast a spell. With Persistent Distraction, it has to be cast; it can fail. Plus only Pandora can use it.

Also there are other auras and pulses that clearly define if they affect enemies or friendlies only. Unless otherwise stated, it affects everyone in its range.

[mpangelu]

It is a bit unfair to say companion is broken vs persistant distraction. As Companion is what you choose for your crew, by utilizing persistant distraction, you will force your oponent to use all his models before you use yours. Comparing the two is similar but not correct in this situation. I wasn't concerned originally with the effect of the spell, but it struck me as odd that it has a unlimited range on models it actually will effect vs just the 4" pulse. Basically those within 4 can go after those other models on the board or in normal order with them. That's the odd thing to me, it isn't just effecting those within the range of the spell, it has an effect that goes to all models on the board.

[SnG]

I guess my question should be its own thread, but if an enemy model is effected by Incite, it must be the next model the opponent activates, however if it is also affected by persistent distraction it may not activate until all other models not effected by persistent distraction. What happens? as long as one of his models are out side the persistent, he has no valid models to activate. At what point can he activate another model?

[Mach_5]

I would say models outside the range of persistent distraction finish activating, then the models within range of persistent distraction may activate. Of those in the second group, the model with incite must activate first.

[Fading Memory]

It is a bit unfair to say companion is broken vs persistant distraction. As Companion is what you choose for your crew, by utilizing persistant distraction, you will force your oponent to use all his models before you use yours. Comparing the two is similar but not correct in this situation. I wasn't concerned originally with the effect of the spell, but it struck me as odd that it has a unlimited range on models it actually will effect vs just the 4" pulse. Basically those within 4 can go after those other models on the board or in normal order with them. That's the odd thing to me, it isn't just effecting those within the range of the spell, it has an effect that goes to all models on the board.

I was just saying that Companion was broken for argument sake, by no means do I believe it. It does affect the entire board, but so does Companioning the entire Ortega crew, or the Dreamer and all his Daydreams, or Seamus and all his Belles. The Poltergeist can just be a little backwards in this, its a potential forced crew companion for the enemy.

I also see this as situational. Giving your opponent free reign to do as he sees fit with all his models every turn is going to hurt you far more than help you. Mid-Late game I don't see it being as effective.

The question is, is it an aura or a pulse. The original rule book has it as an aura. This would be better balanced if it is an aura. As a model outside its range could shoot the Poltergeist, kill it, and end the aura. If it's a pulse then it doesn't matter if you kill it then.

[mpangelu]

How would it work as an aura, doesn't that mean that every second everything in the aura would have to test to resist? Or when would that happen? Do you do it as you move into the aura? Do you only test one time? What if you are moved out of the aura and then back in?

I just see way too many questions arising that I don't think can easily be answered if it is an aura. Pulse seems to make much much more sense and is easily usable in gameplay in this situation without causing further confusions.

[Fading Memory]

I just see way too many questions arising that I don't think can easily be answered if it is an aura. Pulse seems to make much much more sense and is easily usable in gameplay in this situation without causing further confusions.

I didn't think of that. Pulse it is.

Aura just seemed to fit with the word Persistent. Auras are persistent, pulses aren't. Pulse is far better for game play. And the spell says "...models unaffected by this spell..." so that fits with the rules of a pulse. Sounds like a V2 card might be needed for people who don't have access to the forums.

[mpangelu]

This goes to a question I asked on the other topic in this forum... Why is there no v2 card for this model? He is from the original book and isn't in the pdf of the neverborn to the left of this page...

[Mach_5]

It was one of a few models without changes to the original card, thus no v2 card necessary.

[mpangelu]

Well.. my card has contradictions.. it would be nice to have it cleared up....???

[Natty]

I asked this question a long time ago and was told that it worked on your own models to activate them after the opposing models. The wording on a card takes precedence over the book, so they CAN'T activate until every other model has, even though the book says you are supposed to activate a model. I need to leave soon so I don't feel like searching for the thread.

Also, for the record, using this correctly is utterly broken and not fun to play against. What I did to dominate a tournament (and will never do again) was to run 4 Silurids with the Doppleganger, Pandora, and her totem. You put the Silurids in the bubble, then after the opponent has finished activating you use their almost unrivaled move speed to hop all 4 across the board and get 4 models worth of attacks (2 attacks each with blood frenzy for up to 2 bonus attacks each). Then the Doppleganger should give you initiative and you companion all 4 Silurids as your first activation the next turn and get 4 more models worth of attacks before they get to go. In every round of the tournament (except the round where the guy quit on turn 2 before I even did this particular trick), I was able to take out every single non-master model on the opposing team with upwards of 32 Silurid attacks (2-4 attacks per model with 4 models over 2 turns before they can even attack back).

It's broken and shouldn't work like that.