New to Malifaux will resurrect...

[Brence]

It's one of those times that you are truly noobish again...Giddy like a schoolgirl yet oh so nervous to make the wrong purchases...

So lets just start this off gentle, I just bought the Nico Box, books are backordered though so I have to wait for that one... Skimming some posts I am looking into a kind of themed force.

My first idea (based on general opinion so it seems) for a list would be the following:

Nico

Mortimer

Vulture

3x Canine Remains

The Hanged

Only thing I'd rather have switched out was the Hanged for a more fleshy zombie like thing to get a real shambling horde thing going. Also I wonder if any other Unique Minions would help that aspect along like Sebastian. So any advice is welcome!

[dakrulz55]

for higher point games jack daw never hurts - hand size +1, helps other hanged, hard to kill, and i think hes at cost with nico(not sure)

also necro punks are really good cheap undead guys. swarming little buggers give people trouble, pluss leap and flurry is really good.

[Aberration]

for higher point games jack daw never hurts - hand size +1, helps other hanged, hard to kill, and i think hes at cost with nico(not sure)

also necro punks are really good cheap undead guys. swarming little buggers give people trouble, pluss leap and flurry is really good.

Jack Daw is indeed at cost, as he is "Undead". JD is also awesome, just make sure you keep some control cards handy!!

[Brence]

for higher point games jack daw never hurts - hand size +1, helps other hanged, hard to kill, and i think hes at cost with nico(not sure)

also necro punks are really good cheap undead guys. swarming little buggers give people trouble, pluss leap and flurry is really good.

Hmmz, well as said, i'd rather have some more Zombie Flavoured things running amok. Sebastian is a rather nice model dunno however if the model itself works in combi with Nico?

[Chucklemonkey]

Hmmz, well as said, i'd rather have some more Zombie Flavoured things running amok. Sebastian is a rather nice model dunno however if the model itself works in combi with Nico?

He potentially does, if you are set on taking canine remains. Use him as a packmaster of sorts, and he can raise further dogs (IIRC).

As for the more zombie flavoured things, have you considered the samurai punks? They are combat powerhouses, especially when receiving Nico's buffs. Would certainly also help to have a blister of Mindless Zombies, the reason for this will become clear when you get your book.

Other excellent ress models include crooked men, who would fit the zombie theme nicely, and Bete Noire, who really doesn't but I think is too cool not to mention and I think also benefits from Nico's buffs. :clap:

[Aberration]

Hmmz, well as said, i'd rather have some more Zombie Flavoured things running amok. Sebastian is a rather nice model dunno however if the model itself works in combi with Nico?

Seb wouldn't be bad, but he uses Body Parts like McM... while using Morty yields corpse counters that Nico can use to a great extent via Exhume and a Crow.

[TimeLapse]

It's one of those times that you are truly noobish again...Giddy like a schoolgirl yet oh so nervous to make the wrong purchases...

So lets just start this off gentle, I just bought the Nico Box, books are backordered though so I have to wait for that one... Skimming some posts I am looking into a kind of themed force.

My first idea (based on general opinion so it seems) for a list would be the following:

Nico

Mortimer

Vulture

3x Canine Remains

The Hanged

Only thing I'd rather have switched out was the Hanged for a more fleshy zombie like thing to get a real shambling horde thing going. Also I wonder if any other Unique Minions would help that aspect along like Sebastian. So any advice is welcome!

My starting list is close to yours but a tad differant.

Nico

Grave Spirtit

Mortimer

4x Canine Remains

Sebastian

So the idea is to kind sit still and try to get a corpse counter with the bone saw and pieces for me off of three of the dogs. Then you send out the last dog. Then use the CC to get some mindless zombies and a Crooked man or two right away to set up defences. Morty digs up another CC token and casts fresh meat on your last dog. Your new crooked men move towards the dog. now the Crooked men can eather do cave in if there in range or do Shafted if there are still some melee models that can get into range.

Next turn crooked men will place shafted on themselfs to block assulting models. the dog runs back. Morty will try to gain another corpse token and move forward. next if Sebastian was able to get body parts last turn he will then attempt to make another dog and then move up collecting morty's CC and tossing them to nico. Next the next nico and the grave spirit. move forward and attempt to rez some more models depending on what is needed.

And that is as far as my plan goes but thats what im thinking for the base of the nico list.

-Andrew

Next I would use mo

[Brence]

So whats the difference between body parts and whole corpse tokens? Do casualties create one of the both or?

[gregdorf]

McMourning can convert corpse counters into body parts, or gain them through actions or spells. With the body parts he can summon new undead, gain fast, cause healing/damage flips, or used to pay part of the cost of certain spells. He is the only master that uses body parts.

[Wodschow]

When living or undead models die they leave corpse counters.

McMourning and Sebastian can mutilate the corpses into Body Part counters. They also have a few other ways of obtaining Body Parts.

They use the body parts for summoning, but can also use them for various other stuff such as healing.

[TimeLapse]

So whats the difference between body parts and whole corpse tokens? Do casualties create one of the both or?

The diffenace is that there is nothing in the game that can discard body parts but there are only a few models that can use them. Body parts are always carried as far as i know and they take more to summen things with. Sebastian has a trigger that gives him a body part, and a spell that gives him two if you really need them you can trade a CC for two but in a nico army i would avoid doing this.

Sebastian can summen a dog useing two body parts he can also use one to give or make a healing flip for anything in your amry that is in range.

Sebastain is also awesome in Close combat!

But yeah there differnt but they work together and only Sebastain in a Nico list will end up useing body parts.

[Brence]

Hmmm I wonder how much of an inpedamant Seb's Body Part mechanism will be, an other option would still be using Killjoy.

So that would be

Nic

Vulture

Mortimer

2x Canine Remains

Killjoy

As far as I understand (without a rulebook *yet*) the key abilites are following:

Canine Remains run across table, damage or kill something with luck and die to give a corpse token each, the Vulture can "Channel" spells for Nicodemus so would be able to use the summoning spells to make Punk Zombies out of the Corpse Counters of the K9 for a punchline. Morty at the same time could use his corpse making abilites to generate corpses for for instance Crooked Men as ranged attackers and Mindless Zombies to wall Nico off from enemy charges.

[chaosobscuros]

Killjoy is a lot of fun in a Nico list. However, I would look at taking a Necropunk and the Grave Spirit in the place of the Vulture and one of the Canine Remains. The Necropunk's Slow to Die action will give you the opportunity to summon Killjoy at the end of your opponent's activation. Also, the Grave Spirit can link to Nico, and Give him Armor 2, helping his survivability a great deal.

[Q'iq'el]

Canine Remains run across table, damage or kill something with luck and die to give a corpse token each, the Vulture can "Channel" spells for Nicodemus so would be able to use the summoning spells to make Punk Zombies out of the Corpse Counters of the K9 for a punchline. Morty at the same time could use his corpse making abilites to generate corpses for for instance Crooked Men as ranged attackers and Mindless Zombies to wall Nico off from enemy charges.

OK, some comments from practical experience.

1. Reanimate, which you use to summon Punk Zombies, Crooked Men, Belles and such, is a *tough* spell to cast. You may get very lucky with your hand or you may be spending Soulstones like crazy, but most of the time you won't be able to bring an entire crew with it. It's good to regard it as a way to replenish your crew and maybe add an model or two to it, but not as a source of free models.

2. Vultures are exceptionally bad casters for totems. They are not designed to cast for Nicodem, they are there to pick up Corpse Counters and provide him LoS options.

If you use Magical Extension they cast with their own Ca - that means they cannot ever succeed with Reanimate unless you burn Soulstones.

If you use Eyes and Ears, it works slightly different - you place your Vulture, you activate Eyes and Ears and then you activate Nicodem and *he* casts spells through the Vulture. There's small penalty to Ca and you don't gain any APs that way (because Nicodem has to spend his own APs on casting).

I'm not sure if you can even use Eyes and Ears to cast Reanimate, because the target of Reanimate is the caster himself (Rng:C). Most probably the only way to have Vultures help in summoning is to have them send lose counters to him. New models will still appear within 6" from Nicodem and Slow.

3. There is perception among players that it is Nicodem who is the master summoner of Resurrectionists. Nothing further from truth. Yes, he is the most versatile and flexible, but for him summoning is an expensive exercise (unless we speak about Mindless Zombies, but those are useless in offensive role). I think other masters may have more limited choice, but they summon their minions more reliably and at lower cost.

What Nicodem really is is a *master buffer*. Keep him close to his crew, Bolster Undead all game round, shot Decay left and right (blast at the same time damages opponents and heals your own undead) and bring more Mindless Zombies in the process.

Granted, a list where Nicodem hangs back and rezzes is quite possible I think. I just expect it to be huge gamble - if your cards go wrong you'll have entire opponent's team on your master with nothing to defend him. Even if you succeed at raising stuff, far away from his buffs Undead are mediocre fighters with only few models above average (practically every undead crew relies on buffing them - be it through Nurses, Bolster Undead or simply using the master to get the kill).

If you keep him in a strong group of Punk Zombies, Crooked Men and other tough undead, they'll shield him, they'll fight well thanks to his buffs and they'll provide corpse counters you can use to replenish the ranks as your zombies fall. You can even move such an undead throng around the field at higher speed, thanks to Mortimer's Fresh Meat.

I don't want to say dogs won't work for him, because they do. I know some players who use them with great success. I just think the list which relies on just 2 dogs to kill something early, with Nicodem too far away to buff them, may be a bit risky.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[TimeLapse]

Nic

Vulture

Mortimer

2x Canine Remains

Killjoy

I like the list save Kill joy and ill tell you why, he cost 11 points plus a model, so the cheapest one in the list is 2 points not only does he cost you 13 ss in the end he also costs you a corpes counter as well. so in the end you are spending alot of points for something that is hard to control and as far as you stated what this list should do is not in your plan at all. I would instead take him out and run something like this at 25ss,

Nic

Vulture 2

Mortimer 7

4x Canine Remains 8

Convict gunslinger 6 or 2 Crooked men 8.

Crooked men are great starting minions since they have range and have good defence vs range, in fact with bostler undead they become df 8 vs range attacks, making them really hard to hit, also they have shafted witch is a good way to keep enamy models from chargeing in strait at you. Move the Crooked men the first turn and from then on use fresh meat to move them if you must, useing there AP for range attacks or setting up traps.

But I intend the 6-8 points (convict or Crooked men slot) in the end to be mission based, so if you need speed then necropunks x2. If you face a constuct army then Sebastain and his saw may help you get corpes countes right away, add him and another dog. and so on, to say that the last 6-8 points is flexable points depending on VPs.

[TimeLapse]

3. There is perception among players that it is Nicodem who is the master summoner of Resurrectionists. Nothing further from truth. Yes, he is the most versatile and flexible, but for him summoning is an expensive exercise (unless we speak about Mindless Zombies, but those are useless in offensive role). I think other masters may have more limited choice, but they summon their minions more reliably and at lower cost.

I will have disagree with you here, Nicoderm has the lowest costs for summing models in the game, his reanimated needs only 16 of 2 crows and one corpse counter to summon a bell where Seamus needs 17 2 crows and a corpse counter to summon the same model.

Also as an added benefit Nico gets to draw a card for each counter needed and he has a zero action to make his counters fight as mindless zombies.

I agree that body parts are easier to get then CC but one of the hardest things to get is a high enough crows to get the spell off and Nico can do it with at lest a 9 of crows where as the other two (I don’t own the new book) need at lest a 10 of crows. With morty getting a corpse counter is not that hard but getting the crow you need is the hardest part of rezing and Nico has the other two beat there.

Also as a side note, if you are lucky and draw two 9+ cards of crows in the same turn you can summon more then once with Nico, where as some players see his 1 action summon as a weakness I point to it and say that it is a strength. The other two casters have to give up there good zero actions to be able to rez at all.

Were nico is weaker in a lot of ways compared to the other rez masters he is the “best” at summoning, though it is a small margin of one digit, also being able to draw cards and being able to do it more then once per turn make him that much better at it then the rest.

-Andrew

Edited August 31, 2010 by TimeLapse

[Q'iq'el]

Well, the point I tried to get across is that he is still a far better buffer/caster than he is a summoner. 9+ of :crows is still a hard sell and not something one draws reliably (maybe just my luck, but that's like only 5 cards in the deck).

When you really need to summon, you will use any crows and burn a soulstone to do it. But that's an option for 2~3 summons per game, not more. You'll be still better off if you spend most of your APs on Decays and Rigor Mortis if you get a really good hand.

IMHO Summoning is best regarded as a way to replenish your crew and perhaps add a mini or two to it. It's not very effective, in my opinion, to spend entire game summoning models, because ultimately Nicodem gets things done either himself, or using minions he directly supports (with Bolster and/or heals).

Edited August 31, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[TimeLapse]

Yeah i agree that if you depend on the idea of summing a whole new army you are going to be in for fustration station. Where i disagreed is where you said that it was cheaper and more reliable to summen with the other masters when in fact its a bit harder, its just that most players assume that Nico will be summening a lot more then he does that makes players think that he is not as good as the others when it comes to summening.

I agree with the fact that he should be focused on bolster undead and decay/wds/heal stuff and slowing things down. Though I am thinking that I will want alot more Soul stones on him, that way if I have a 6+ of crows you can take the gamble and see if you can flip a 3+ to get the spell off.

if you want to count more on summening though i think you need alot of SS on Nico, 7-8 at lest to make sure he can get the spell off more often and you need to bring seb to kill a dog or two right away to give you some starting CC to play with other then what morty will give you.

The list i would like to see at 35ss, this is subject to change due to missions and VP stuff,

Nic

Grave spirit 1ss

Mortimer 7

Canine Remains 2

Canine Remains 2

Canine Remains 2

Sebastian 6

Crooked man 4ss

Crooked man 4ss

Crooked man 4ss

That leaves you with 6ss, I planed this list thinking that my oppent is a guild player so i went with the crooked men. But the idea is to use moramer to get my first CC, then kill all three dogs right away with sabastain useing his bone saw trying to get as meny body parts via his trigger as possable. Then haveing him toss them to nico who then in turn makes them into mindless zombies. Useing the crooked men to form a wall in front of Nico to protect him from charges or range attacks. Then I use Nico to make the zombies and try his hand at rezing some punk zombies if i was lucky enough to get some crows. but makig sure that i leave at lest 2 mindless zombies behind. next turn i move, I use freah meat to get my undead moveing and try for another corpes conter, then i get seb to try and make a dog if he got enough body parts if he didnt i will think about weather it is worth it to grab some parts useing his all action.

next Neco goes (bolster on), (move), (move or rez if i have a 7+ of crows), (fog or rig). He should still be behind the other undead models. Then i move the crooked men and the Necro punks.

Thats the basic plan for the first turns but its up in the air from there depending on what my oppents do.

But this is all in my head i have no idea if it will work this way ingame but one would hope.

-Andrew

Edited August 31, 2010 by TimeLapse

[Brence]

Hmmz reading all of this im seeing to famous ways of playing Nico, on one end the K9 remains are used to summon up the rest of the army, on the other hand people start out with some remains and some deaders allready, so im thinking of maybe the following:

Nico

Mort

Crooked men 3x

Canine Remains 2x

This would as far as I read you guys be a good defence due to the Crooked men with the Canine's and Mort delivering CC's for taking Punk Zombies to the field.

[shekbo]

Don't forget Nicodem's mindless zombies. if you want shambling fun, get some of them. Only Nicodem can use them, so in essence they are his only unique model in the book (the only ones just for him.) He controls them in a horde, can make unlimited numbers of them effortlessly, and while they won't do much by themselves I've had lots of fun overwhelming my opponent.

But, the only drawback: Wyrd only produces three different zombie models for them. You could buy multiple packs, but... that's boring. I, for instance, got creative with whatever zombie models I had lying around near the right scale and now have 12 mindless zombies, all of which have been on the board at once, though only for a very short if glorious time. Mortimer works best for shambling hordes because of the "Fresh meat" action he has and because with "zombie companion" he can go simultaneously with all the zombie dogs you have clustered around him.

thematically, if you're looking for more fleshy zombies, Crooked men look good, Bete noir is fairly thematic with either nico and seamus, and killjoy is fleshy and fun. Autopsies might work too, for a little zombie ranged support, though they don't work too well with Nico as they don't leave corpses when killed. (He can turn a dead dog into a zombie samurai somehow, but when the body gets a bit rotten, Oh NO, the deal's off.)

Nico is an exceedingly fun master to play if you don't mind painting hordes, and my advice to you (with your current list) pick up the pack of mindless zombies, then have some fun and get creative looking for other models. I actually bought a game trade magazine lately that came with 2 beautiful ghouls that are almost perfectly to scale for mindless zombies, actually. If you happen across that issue save the little sprues.