Hamelin the Plagued

[Zaqir]

So I just go the expansion book and I must admit this guy has been intrigued.

I am a noob I must admit as I have only had 1 game with my Leveticus crew.

so I was wondering.

1)What are some of the good models from the first book that might really benefit him.

2)My thoughts on the second book are that the night terrors might help big time with their ability to be rather resilient and can lower WP.

3)Am I correct in saying that basically only 1 rat can be spawned per model because his own rule that things that die within 6 inches of him are replaced with a rat but no other summoning takes place?

3b)Does that mean if i have a rat within 6 inches of him and it dies another rat takes its place?

4)Semi rules question but models that he can "summon" or for example the rats can summon (IE rat catcher) don't have to be part of my initial crew costs etc?

for instance I don't have to start with a Ratcatcher in my crew but i can sac 3 rats to get on? The same with the Stolen? I can just summon them to me?

5)Blight counters on a model cause it to take 1 additional damage. but is that 1 for each blight counter or just 1?

5a)The spell he does that does damage for each blight counter. if a model has 1 blight counter on it does it do 1 damage or 1 +1 damage because the model has a blight counter?

[Wodschow]

Some of this should probably have been posted in the Rules section, but who cares? So here goes:

1) I don't think any of the models in Book1 are tremendously useful, maybe Canines? Kade, Candy and Tots might be considerable aswell. There's alot of options for sure, but the ones offered in Book2 generally seems better to me.

2) I guess they're okay aswell -2 Wp is nice with no resist sure is nice, but it'll most likely take a card to get off. Haven't played him yet so not really sure how critical cards will be, but my immediate impression is that he'll be missing them alot, time will tell I guess.

3) As per the Rule of Equivalency on page 34, I would assume so, yes. That rule is still being discussed by the Rules Marshals though.

3b) Yes killed rats come back to life Which is what makes the Ratcatchers (0) action so damn useful. Killed rats heal him and the rats get to activate all over.

4) Models summoned after the battle has begun doesn't cost any SS unless the spell says so specifically (the Dreamer summoning Daydreams for instance).

So free Stolen whenever you feel like it.

I think you're better off starting with the Ratcatchers on the table though, at least one of them - to kill your rats and let them activate over thus moving faster around.

5) Just one extra damage regardless of the amount of counters.

5a) I would assume it does X+1 Wounds, X being the amount of counters on the model.

[Zaqir]

Hey thanks for the info and ya he just seems to appeal to me being able to swarm the table, the outnumber aspect in this game being able to activate freely later on etc makes me wonder if the rats need the catcher to do the all at once activating thing because you trade activations early on but then just have a ton of free activations either (unless you really want to get the jump on people)

[dakrulz55]

bring a pigapault and a taxidermist to have flying pig bomb shenanigans!!!!

edit:ignore this, just read his lure of emptyness (rained on my parrade )

Edited August 30, 2010 by dakrulz55

[Chucklemonkey]

I'm also very intrigued by him and the playstyle that he seems to use from reading.

As Woodschow mentioned Canine remains, Candy and Kade should work well. I definately intend to take them in my Rat/Dog/Child swarm along with some Guild Hounds. I had originally got it in my head that he could hire Alyce as she was soulless and thought that would be excellent back up but unfortunately Hamelin is not a scavenger master.

One question about his hiring insignificant models, not that I intend to do so, but I assume he can take general faction totems such as the Drill Sergeant?

Edit: Some giant rats for anyone interested until the proper ones are out.

http://www.otherworld.me.uk/dvseries.html

Edited August 30, 2010 by Chucklemonkey

[Zaqir]

i thought he could take ht 1 or insignificant non attached totems but he can only take 1 correct?

Also I don't know if the guild hounds are that great with him, alot of the powers that go with them are like guild related.

My main focus is to find ways to lower WP for him to flute someone big.

good swarmers, ways to inflict blight etc etc.

as I said I liked the night terrors but the Alps are potentially interesting with their own swarm dynamic, slow to screw people and a bit of wp tricks.

[Chucklemonkey]

I still see a lot of good stuff in the hounds, if you take two the only thing you lose from being a non guild master is the cashback in terms of soulstones.

Of course if Hamelin is not close enough to prevent corpse counters etc from being generated then they can get a 1 action charge which will be useful against quite a few masters

The good thing is that there are plenty of choices for people to choose from, very much looking forward to trying him out.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Chucklemonkey

[Zaqir]

I keep thinking his spell that does damage for each blight counter is good but to be honest the more i think about it the more i think that spell is a red hearing.

Little things will already be dead if 3 rats or so attack, big things might not even be hit and really is it worth the effort?

His ranged attack and controlling WP 5 or less folks will drive folks insane and his other tricks are what will shine more in my book.

Although i do hope there are more blight counter shinanigens in the future, perhaps a spell or a model that makes maggot creatures (if they release something like that) pop out if a model has a blight counter.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Zaqir

[Wodschow]

Blight counters are awesome in themselves, I agree that Bleeding Death seems to be less so, but here's some things to consider aswell.

First and foremost: The spell is not considered a ranged attack. You can use it on a model which is engulfed by your swarm of rats.

For Hamelin: It allows you to use either the Pipe to attack Df or Bleeding Death to attack Wp. Getting the trigger off let's you use the spell twice which isn't all that bad at all. (Trigger on Pipes still being better (imo), but takes another card.)

All other models designed for Hamelin can use it (cept for Rats), even the Stolen and the Wretch (who by the way have a considerable Ca-value for what they're worth).

This is generally your only way of doing damage at range.

There's by the way also several means to lower your opponents Wp. Rats and Canines have Rabies, Night Terrors have a trigger on their aura (albeit expensive in cards). Stolen and Wretch have No Humanity and there might be a few others aswell.

Just food for thought~*

[Zaqir]

You know what else I like?

Nix, because of his reverse damage line where his weak damage does more then his severe etc you can literally cheat crappy cards on to him if you want.

[Sobek]

You know what else I like?

Nix, because of his reverse damage line where his weak damage does more then his severe etc you can literally cheat crappy cards on to him if you want.

Is he even allowed to take Nix, since he's Height 2?

[Zaqir]

Nix in book 2? ya (he is soulless or ht1 last i looked)

So a few things I like about him.

His weapons are ok (aside from taking 2 wounds if he doesn't smack you hard)

Decent stats and he is Fast, no tokens needed etc.

He has ways to heal and if he dies he aint dead just yet, he has summoning tricks and some other neat abilities.

Things like bully can be a big help (Frankly I don't know how gremlins will fight him)

The ability to ignore discard abilities and to give him some positive twists etc.

Now earlier I said Bleeding Disease was a read hearing and it might be (as several things that work with him cast it) but i forgot he has a trigger that lets him keep casting it and that he has a -2 ca each casting but with a CA of 7 and only needing a 10 to cast it, there is a chance it can be spammed 2 or 3 times in some circumstances.

What intrigues me a bit is that spell he has that sucks in tiny things and insignificant things and then does damage if he touches them from the pull. That combined with his ability to have things die and turn into rats is interesting.

The spell he has that makes him the only target may not be the best spell for him however his totem can cast that which can screw up some folks trying to target him.

There just seems to be SOOOOO many interesting combos with him that honestly I cannot wait to go all out when he becomes available.

[Sobek]

Nix in book 2? ya (he is soulless or ht1 last i looked)

In Hamlin's rules it, uses the word AND, not OR. This is probably a case where it could have been worded better, I'd think.

[Sezar]

Man, if that would be the case, then Hamelin couldn't take nobody but The Stolen, as as long as I know they are the only model that is at the same time Soulless, Insignificant AND Ht1; not even Rats, The Wrench, Nix, Rat Catchers... have those 3 stats!!!

And yes, Nix and Rat Catchers are Ht2, but Nix is Soulless and Rat Catchers are Insignificants. I really think that a model only has to have one of those 3 stats to be able to be taken along with Hamelin the Plagued.

[Chucklemonkey]

In Hamlin's rules it, uses the word AND, not OR. This is probably a case where it could have been worded better, I'd think.

I think it must mean or.

As zaqir says, there are so many cool combos available, really looking forward to trying him out when the models arrive.

[Wodschow]

It would be a joke if Hamelin weren't allowed to bring his loyal dog that can only be taken by Hamelin, so obviously yes, Hamelin can bring Nix (I believe the -only- other Master allowed to take Nix currently is Kirai (if she also brings mercenary Hamelin)).

@Zaqir:

Inevitable Truth is -awesome-, use it following Understand the Soulless or getting off the trigger on the Pipes. Now the model can do next to nothing: Unable to target anyone but Hamelin thanks to Inevitable Truth and unable to target Hamelin thanks to Bully..

Also.. While I guess it's up to personal preference I find (0)Fate is Meaningless to be soo much better than his (0) Useless Tou ability (which is the one I assume you refer to when you say positive flips).

Fate is Meaningless is easily one of the best (0) actions in the game (in my opinion), especially when you have two as awesome weapons as Hamelins.

Edit@Nix discussion:

Nix is insignificant and soulless so can be taken by master Hamelin.

Nix have an ability called Hamelin's Dog that says the following: This model may only be hired by a crew containing any Hamelin model.

So can be taken if master Hamelin is in the crew.

Can also be taken if normal Hamelin is in the crew, but since Nix is not a mercenary he can only join Outcast crews or masters specifically allowed to hire him.

Leveticus can hire Soulless models, but he cannot hire Hamelin (so Leveticus is out).

Viktoria and Von Schill can only hire mercenaries, so they're out as Nix isn't a mercenary.

Jones and Ophelia can only hire Gremlin (and pigs and kin and vermin), so they're out aswell.

Kirai can hire Spirits from every faction, Nix is a spirit, she can also hire mercenaries, which normal Hamelin is.

So other than master Hamelin, Kirai is the only one allowed to take Nix currently.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Wodschow

[izikial]

hi guys, is the -2 ca on his bleeding desies added up each time, like the second time it trigers you are at -4 and so on

[Wodschow]

I thought of that aswell.

I feel that is the intention of the rules.

However it doesn't make any mention of the effect being cumulative (such as Anasalea Kaeris' trigger does) and the general rule is that a model can only be affected once by an effect unless otherwise mentioned.

So I'm inclined to say from a RAW perspective that the third cast would also be at just -2 Ca.

Interesting to note is that it doesn't seem that the spell has to be cast on the same target as is usually the case with that kind of triggers.

[tenabrae]

Leveticus can hire Soulless models, but he cannot hire Hamelin (so Leveticus is out).

They can double-team in a brawl though... Nix + Leve is brutal.

--

When testing hamelin in 35ss I ran something like hammy, 2 rat catchers, wench, 3 rats, nix. I still haven't seen the book (hopefully today if the distributor loves us) but from the current discussion it sounds like he's much the same, pick a thing to only target hammy/can't target hammy run about turning everything into rats, swarm.

--

re: the wording on his restriction, changing it to OR would actually be more restrictive. Consider the sentence, "you may eat apples, oranges and pears" ... this clearly doesn't mean you need to eat all 3, it means you may eat any or all of the 3. The sentence "you may eat apples, oranges or pears" on the other hand means you must pic one of the three to eat.

[Sezar]

re: the wording on his restriction, changing it to OR would actually be more restrictive. Consider the sentence, "you may eat apples, oranges and pears" ... this clearly doesn't mean you need to eat all 3, it means you may eat any or all of the 3. The sentence "you may eat apples, oranges or pears" on the other hand means you must pic one of the three to eat.

So true there!

[Sobek]

Perhaps, but by saying that you can only hire models that are Height 1, Soulless, and Insignificant, it implies that the model must have all 3 traits. Granted, intuitively we know that the models should only need to have one of those traits. It just could have been worded a little better. Thankfully, most of the wording and editing in the new book is far better than that in the first one.

[Zaqir]

Perhaps, but by saying that you can only hire models that are Height 1, Soulless, and Insignificant, it implies that the model must have all 3 traits. Granted, intuitively we know that the models should only need to have one of those traits. It just could have been worded a little better. Thankfully, most of the wording and editing in the new book is far better than that in the first one.

Its like Leveticus who can hire soulless,undead,constructs.

he can hire either HT1,INsig or souless stuff, not a combo of all 3.

It states later he can't hire things like gremlins etc.

[Zaqir]

As for the Bleeding disease trigger i believe its -2 ca each time the trigger is in effect so its -2 -4 -6 etc.

the reason for this is that its part of the same action during the trigger.

You cast the spell and trigger it, and the cast is -2ca with essentially a free cast not taking an action, it can trigger again but its harder etc.

As soon as you stop triggering or use a new action pt you are back to your full ca.

I am sure you can see why that was done for balance purposes etc.

If it only remained on -2 ca then you could get on a hot streak where you only needed the right suits and cards 5 to red joker to get it off etc. Thats a bit unbalanced you must agree.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Zaqir

[Hatchethead]

They can double-team in a brawl though... Nix + Leve is brutal.

I've been wondering about this.

Does Hamelins inability to hire constructs not crap all over teaming with Leveticus in a brawl situation? I mean, you still COULD, but Leve with no constructs ...?

[izikial]

as far as lists go, i was thinking for 35 ss (its what i normaly play)

hamlin

5 rats 10ss

nix 7ss

rat catcher 5ss

stolen 3ss

obedeint wretch 2ss

this leavs me 8 ss, what do you guys think i should fill this with, my game plan is using the rat catcher and rats to rush the enemy, maybe nix with them to heard them, and just kill and blight what ever i can, wial hamlin and the otheres are runing up, when the rat wave dies hamlin mopes up the rest, sacrificing at least one stolen a turn maybe two on the first turn, they then turn into rats for more blight, dont really see what the wretch is good for, maybe just the draw thing, but i could kill her for a rat.

three rulse questions, things that refrence the next action is that just like an atack or a spell or for the rest of the turn. nix's drink spirit is that a perminant buff. and lastly, the talent nihialism makes insignificant thinks not insignificant at the start of game, so could and insignificant thing be given the deilivery scheme or not, because when you pick the scheme the rat would be insignificant.