Canine remains token generator

[Kaine]

Not sure if this has been fixed or if I'm Reading it wrong but can't a 2pt canine with graverobber spend it's action to do a generic search to gain 1 corpse counter that seamus can use next round to summon a bell.

Thus canines = cheap bells ?

[goblyn13]

With the errata Search was changed to be only available to scavengers. Was removed from graverobbers

[shekbo]

Whoa, seriously... Graverobbers can't "Search" for Corpse Counters? that totally destroys Nikodem. Why would they make that ruling?

Getting pretty disappointed that this game is changing so many fundamental rules.

[Q'iq'el]

Nikodem still has Mortimer, who can search for corpse counters thanks to his unique spell.

[Angus Khan]

Whoa, seriously... Graverobbers can't "Search" for Corpse Counters? that totally destroys Nikodem. Why would they make that ruling?

Getting pretty disappointed that this game is changing so many fundamental rules.

Just me, but I wouldn't place scavenging for corpse counters under the "fundamental rules" category...

Besides, the Ressers were waaaay too powerful when they could have virtually unlimited corpse counters.

[goblyn13]

Whoa, seriously... Graverobbers can't "Search" for Corpse Counters? that totally destroys Nikodem. Why would they make that ruling?

Getting pretty disappointed that this game is changing so many fundamental rules.

for exactly the reason that the question was first asked, first turn, have 8 dogs companioned to mcmorning, the dogs all companion with mcmorning on the first turn, All of them dig find a corpse counter giving them 8 counters, they in turn give them to mcmorning who now has 16 body parts counters allowing him to bring in the Flesh construct with enough left over for him to make another next turn, in the meantime Sebastian can be making even more dogs and keep the factory running.

Or in Nicodem and Seamus they can be bringing in multiple higher soulstone models by just having a few dog in the very first turn. Waaaaaaay to strong.

[kyleb]

If you want to summon a bunch, just take McMourning and a Canine. Start them in base contact and kill it with Dissection, getting you 3 body parts plus the corpse counter generated. That's a flesh construct right there.

[Kaine]

awwww there goes my evil master plan

[ork56]

the rule was changed very early in the games life.

I also cried at the change, but now realise how broken the Ressers would be if it still worked that way.

McMourning generally gets out 3 Flesh Golems in a 6 turn game, not too shabby.

[Silas Cordell]

With the errata Search was changed to be only available to scavengers. Was removed from graverobbers

At the moment, this errata basically means that Search was restricted to Leveticus, as Ramos has no need for it. I don't think there are any other scavengers, though I'm sure we'll see more.

[greenstuff_gav]

besides, make your corpses the fun method; kill stuff

the opponents or your own (kill a Belle with only 1 wound left, Seamus heals 2, gains a control card and can then summon a new Belle )

[Kaine]

besides, make your corpses the fun method; kill stuff

the opponents or your own (kill a Belle with only 1 wound left, Seamus heals 2, gains a control card and can then summon a new Belle )

Can you use anything you like to kill your own models, ie just target them with ranged, spells, etc ? or only specific powers.

[nilus]

Can you use anything you like to kill your own models, ie just target them with ranged, spells, etc ? or only specific powers.

Yep, there are no rules that say you can't attack and kill your own stuff.

As far as crippling Nicodem. I played Nicodem extensively and I can say that I never used the search(all) action. There are many other ways to get corpse tokens that are a lot easier and a lot less time consuming for his crew.

[Subötai]

Yep, there are no rules that say you can't attack and kill your own stuff.

As far as crippling Nicodem. I played Nicodem extensively and I can say that I never used the search(all) action. There are many other ways to get corpse tokens that are a lot easier and a lot less time consuming for his crew.

Like killing gremlins.

[HandsomeDan]

Am I the only one who's brain compels him to try to visualize what a Flesh Construct miraculously stitched together from a single dissected Canine Remains would look like? Its a very bizarre and unsettling picture.

[shekbo]

As far as crippling Nicodem. I played Nicodem extensively and I can say that I never used the search(all) action. There are many other ways to get corpse tokens that are a lot easier and a lot less time consuming for his crew.

So, first of all, what does graverobber even mean then? If they can't search for corpses, then do they have any other effects? also, because I'm a Nicodem player too (though highly inexperienced) can mortimer's find-a-corpse spell even be cheated? I mean the flip a raven bit, not the basic spell cost. I've been using the search (all) action with the doggies to much success, and while I apologize for the admittedly whiny comment earlier, i really can't see why Nicodem is balanced now considering the aforementioned mcmourning strategy post. Seems like it's hard to generate corpses by killing things if you're about as effective in combat as a glass hammer. should I start with a pack of doggies and then just activate with mortimer and have them cannibalize each other on the first turn? or actually attempt to make corpses out of my opponents, which I know from experience seems like the easier way to go, but really is much harder. (gremlins even have this annoying tendency to have that freaking pig eat all my lovely corpsies. Stupid gremlins.)

[Ropetus]

The point of Graverobber on the Canines is that they can act as mobile corpse deliverers for their Masters. When somethign gets killed, go pick up the corpses up with a Canine before they get eaten by a Pig or sacrificed by Lady Justice (they can't affect counters carried by models) and then deliver them back to your Master next activation.

Nicodem might be wortless in melee but remember that he is not there alone: you have those Soulstones to hire a crew for him as well. He should pick some models with the ability to kill something quick (Punk Zombies are good for this) to produce some corpses and then raise more allies.

Killing your own Canine could be a good move at times to produce an early corpse counter if you have the right cards in your hand. However, soon enough friendly and enemy models should start to get killed and produce corpses en masse. If you play versus constructs it might get tough but you can't get everything right?

-Ropetus

[nilus]

Graverobber has two effects. 1) Corpse counters are not even placed on the board unless a Grave Robber is in play.

2) Only Grave Robbers can pick up corpse counters

Mortimers dig up spell. The flip for a raven can not be cheated

Lastly how does Nicodem get Corpse Counters. Nico with Vultures means he can cast his most powerful spells almost anywhere on the board first turn. So take out some easy targets for counters.

Also you don't need a bunch of corpse counters the first turn. Instead hire some cheap undead(dogs, Necropunks) and send them into combat, as they die use the counters to bring in stronger undead.

Nicodem is not about getting tons of free undead out the first turn, he is about replenishing his numbers as they die and getting more as the enemy dies. Nicodem may not have the ability to get counter McMourning has but he is the only res caster that can raise 3 powerful undead models in a turn.

Add to that Bolster Undead, Arise(and Mindless Zombie shields) and he is really a powerful master.

[shekbo]

Hm. I think i get it, now that I've tried a game with my new doggies. I played against gremlins, and it was fairly easy to get corpses after the first turn, and even then I got lucky with a mortimer dig. Thusfar I'd been playing out of the box, and when I added a vulture, black betty and three dogs into the mix it was fairly easy to generate corpses. admittedly, the scenario was claim jump for both of us, which put me at an advantage, but by the end i got enough corpses from the pig to make myself a desolation engine (I figured there wasn't any reason I couldn't. It was non spirit, non unique, it just wasn't resurrectionist, but Nic can use them anyway) which really turned the tide.

About Mortimer, though, why can't he cheat the flip for a raven? I didn't need to, but I guess I just don't see why not. Was it errata'd? Where is the official errata list, anyway?

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate that. i see now that he isn't underpowered, I just wasn't using him right.

[Ropetus]

Actually, the errata has added a rule to the Desolation Engine that you can't summon it. The only way to get one is buy it or have some steampunk abominations make one. You can find the errata in one of the stickies in the Malifaux matters forum.

Mortimer: You can cheat only when the rules tell you can and this is only during Duels and damage flips. Exhume roll is neither so no cheating on that one. No need to errata that one at all, it is clarified in the FAQ though.

-Ropetus

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

About Mortimer, though, why can't he cheat the flip for a raven? I didn't need to, but I guess I just don't see why not. Was it errata'd? Where is the official errata list, anyway?

Stickied in the Malifaux Matters area, the Rules Discussion area, and in my sig is where you can find the FAQ/Errata materials.

[Zee]

Another good way to generate Body parts with McM is casting Wracked with Pain. People overlook it, but you can gain a Body Part and cause 2 wds from 12" away! Combined with the Zombie Chihuahua, I usually have 5 body parts on Turn 1 [i start with 2-3 SS turned into Body Parts], and Fetch a couple of times, and hit a Necropunk with Wracked to grab the 5th.

After that, I usually don't have problems popping Body Parts from other sources [Corpses, etc].