Haight Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Much better than changing a core game mechanic to fix a faction specific model from breaking the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Much better than changing a core game mechanic to fix a faction specific model from breaking the game. It needed fixing but as the old saying goes dont throw the baby out with the bath water. A great question for me is now that the new skeeter unit is out is it even worth me sticking £25 in to to get the 4+ skeeters that have been nixed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haight Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 To the first point, it's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That would be removing the skeeter from the game, and not fixing the issue at hand. Game developers fix things with minimal disturbance with maximum original intent as possible. It's the way of game design, and I have some experience with the fundamentals and application of such. This is probably closer to how the skeeter was originally intended to function and play, rather than a very frustrating "perfect game required against s'omer, or you lose". And despite protestations to the contrary, being able to single turn mill a perfect hand full of jokers, 13's and 12's is just that. Particularly with his double damage shtick. As to if the value of the skeeter is worth it: that's entirely subjective, and of course your opinion on that matter is the only one that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 The baby in this case would be the general utility of a skeeter and its synergy with the rest of the crew. and as i keep saying it needed fixing but i dont feel this was the right fix and more of a kneejerk reaction to seeing a game that they hae been working on for 3 years broken in a matter of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 and as i keep saying it needed fixing but i dont feel this was the right fix and more of a kneejerk reaction to seeing a game that they hae been working on for 3 years broken in a matter of months. It was not a kneejerk reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 And I don't think it was broken before. I don't think it's broken now. Tournament this last weekend saw several Gremlin crews do extremely well in a pack of 26 people. Relax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 :smokin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireTrollJake Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sorry if this was answered, but under the new Vermin title, do the skeeters take damage from Pull My Finger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sorry if this was answered, but under the new Vermin title, do the skeeters take damage from Pull My Finger? Yes. But only if they are within the . If they themselves are casting it, they are not affected (as per the rules for pulse effects on page 25). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 And I don't think it was broken before. I don't think it's broken now. Tournament this last weekend saw several Gremlin crews do extremely well in a pack of 26 people. Relax. Really? I didn't see that in the results, unless that's not the tournament of 26 posted in the Events forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 I took 6th overall with a fairly balanced Gremlin List and no Skeeters. Also I didn't use SOTF once. The skeeters still have plenty of utility in a Gremlin crew. Speed being one of the great ones. I wouldn't take four but two could produce some spectacular results in the right list. So'mer might not be a straight forward beat stick but I would say he has the most versatility and tricks in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Really? I didn't see that in the results, unless that's not the tournament of 26 posted in the Events forum... Um...are you kidding or serious? Sixth place out of 26. Beat every Arcanist in the room. One of the plethora of Guild players beat the Gremlin force but otherwise were below the ranking. And there were a ton of Guild players and Arcanists. I think we're looking at the same event with 26 players. And, yeah, the Outcast force demonstrated pretty solid competancy. The player, no doubt, is solid. But the Gremlins obviously brought something to the table, too. And before the event I would never have expect Res to do that well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp_mydog Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 It's better to take care of things like the draw you deck and graverobbing dogs early in the life span of the game. Unintended combos like that will cause new players untold frustration, better to nip it in the bud now. I for one don't want to see this game devolve into spam lists, and I think the changes are warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paradox Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Seeing as how at this event, the gremlin army was the only one I did not wipe off the table completely, I'd say that they must have something going for them. The gremlins also inflicted the greatest number of casualties to me all day! And the guy playing them was on his 2nd game ever! And he lasted the most rounds, and was the only one to deny me VPs from Hold Out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Um...are you kidding or serious? Sixth place out of 26. Beat every Arcanist in the room. One of the plethora of Guild players beat the Gremlin force but otherwise were below the ranking. And there were a ton of Guild players and Arcanists. I think we're looking at the same event with 26 players. And, yeah, the Outcast force demonstrated pretty solid competancy. The player, no doubt, is solid. But the Gremlins obviously brought something to the table, too. Seeing as how at this event, the gremlin army was the only one I did not wipe off the table completely, I'd say that they must have something going for them. The gremlins also inflicted the greatest number of casualties to me all day! And the guy playing them was on his 2nd game ever! And he lasted the most rounds, and was the only one to deny me VPs from Hold Out. For the record there were two Gremlin forces at this event, mine which took 6th and another which took 25th. I believe Paradox and Nerdelemental observed the other Gremlin player as I faced Neverborn (Lilith), Guild (Ortegas), Arcanists (Rasputina), and finally Godspeed's Resurectionists (Seamus). The rules for the Gremlin force (specifically SotF and the Skeeters) needed to change to prevent the "I win" button that it was, but they are not gimped. Skeeters still have plenty of bite in them. And SotF is a nice to have not a need to have, at the above mentioned tournament I didn't benefit from it once. The only thing that the errata did was take away something that would have made playing Gremlins like playing Prime Haley in the early days of Warmachine, boredom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Um...are you kidding or serious? Sixth place out of 26. Beat every Arcanist in the room. One of the plethora of Guild players beat the Gremlin force but otherwise were below the ranking. And there were a ton of Guild players and Arcanists. I think we're looking at the same event with 26 players. And, yeah, the Outcast force demonstrated pretty solid competancy. The player, no doubt, is solid. But the Gremlins obviously brought something to the table, too. And before the event I would never have expect Res to do that well. I wouldn't say I was kidding, but I wasn't really serious either, heh; two is hardly "several." We haven't had anyone local have any success whatsoever with the Gremlins. I'll add that we don't proxy generally, so maybe that's a part of it. I also don't think it means much to say they beat every Arcanist crew either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underbheit Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 For the record there were two Gremlin forces at this event, mine which took 6th and another which took 25th. I believe Paradox and Nerdelemental observed the other Gremlin player as I faced Neverborn (Lilith), Guild (Ortegas), Arcanists (Rasputina), and finally Godspeed's Resurectionists (Seamus). The rules for the Gremlin force (specifically SotF and the Skeeters) needed to change to prevent the "I win" button that it was, but they are not gimped. Skeeters still have plenty of bite in them. And SotF is a nice to have not a need to have, at the above mentioned tournament I didn't benefit from it once. The only thing that the errata did was take away something that would have made playing Gremlins like playing Prime Haley in the early days of Warmachine, boredom. After playing several games with gremlins, I have to agree with this analysis. However, I still feel something is lacking in their mechanics. Granted I have not yet used skeeters (We don't proxy), so I haven't really explored the full potential of the crew. That aside I find that my games with gremlins follow a similar pattern. I win by achieving the strategies and schemes, but I have to do it by tip-toeing around with significant characters and sacrificing insignificant models as a diversion. When ever I go for the kill, rather than strategy, I get killed myself and lose. The issue I see is that they can only do medium damage in small quantities, while other crews are capable of dealing high damage in large quantities, which means I have to take the long way round while my opponent can just charge forward. I don't have any suggestions just my observation. One suggestion I do have in regard to SotF, is to restore Teeth's control hand size to 6. Lose the modifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 After playing several games with gremlins, I have to agree with this analysis. However, I still feel something is lacking in their mechanics. Granted I have not yet used skeeters (We don't proxy), so I haven't really explored the full potential of the crew. That aside I find that my games with gremlins follow a similar pattern. I win by achieving the strategies and schemes, but I have to do it by tip-toeing around with significant characters and sacrificing insignificant models as a diversion. When ever I go for the kill, rather than strategy, I get killed myself and lose. The issue I see is that they can only do medium damage in small quantities, while other crews are capable of dealing high damage in large quantities, which means I have to take the long way round while my opponent can just charge forward. I don't have any suggestions just my observation. One suggestion I do have in regard to SotF, is to restore Teeth's control hand size to 6. Lose the modifier. I have had the exact same experience with gremlins. I can win, but I do so by carefully choosing my schemes and avoiding my opponent's models, not by killing anything. But, like you, I have never used the mosquitoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 The errata is great, but is there an FAQ floating around here somewhere I'm not seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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