3 new errata

[AoM]

No because the rules state that a model can not kill themselves(unless an ability says otherwise). So Papa Locos "take you with me" can only be used technically if he has 7 or more wounds.

The problem lies in the fact that if Papa Loco could use "Take ya with me" to kill himself he essential gets to large blasts in a row(one for the spell and then one for his "BOOM" dieing ability).

Personally I think the easiest fix for this would be a few added lines to the "Take you with me" spell that say 1) This can be used to kill Papa Loco but 2) If Papa Loco is killed by this spell, do not also "BOOM"

Much more fun to learn how to use "Take Ya With Me" effectively and then get someone else to make you "BOOM." I certainly how how to make it happen, and with a little planning, anyone can make it happen. Besides, if you're too hurt to "Take Ya With Me," just start making sure you're in melee. No one likes to have to think about being tied up with Loco but unable to hit him because he'll explode.

And if you get there with wounds to spare, take a few melee swings. dinging yourself down to 1 Wd remaining only helps to force the issue.

There's actually more depth to Papa Loco than most people think. He can actually be a pretty effective control model, especially if he's got cover and LoS blocking terrain.

[Kealios]

Can someone cite where this rule is that a model cannot kill itself?

Page 55, "Damage", last sentence on the page: "A model cannot use a talent or cast a spell that would reduce its Wounds to 0." and is followed up by an example on page 57 in the "Maximum Wounds Example" call out box.

[hannibal]

Much more fun to learn how to use "Take Ya With Me" effectively and then get someone else to make you "BOOM." I certainly how how to make it happen, and with a little planning, anyone can make it happen. Besides, if you're too hurt to "Take Ya With Me," just start making sure you're in melee. No one likes to have to think about being tied up with Loco but unable to hit him because he'll explode.

Except Take Ya With me requires him to be at 7+ wounds. On an 8 wound model that's much harder than it looks. Especially with how many weapons inflict 2 wounds on their weak damage.

I'm all for learning to use a model effectively, but really, this is a guy who should be able to blow himself up. From a game use perspective and from a story perspective.

[hannibal]

Personally I think the easiest fix for this would be a few added lines to the "Take you with me" spell that say 1) This can be used to kill Papa Loco but 2) If Papa Loco is killed by this spell, do not also "BOOM"

I'd be happy with this. I think it'd be easier to just add a line that says "Sacrifice this model." That'd prevent triggering Boom and it'd also not leave any corpse counters. Which makes sense since he's basically the epicenter of the blast and unless you intend to raise a the dread Blender Mist Wraith, there's not gonna be enough parts to make anyone.

(actually the no corpse counters is just a side effect. Putting in sacrifice simply does what you'd like within the existing rules; either idea works just fine)

[Totengraber]

Page 55, "Damage", last sentence on the page: "A model cannot use a talent or cast a spell that would reduce its Wounds to 0." and is followed up by an example on page 57 in the "Maximum Wounds Example" call out box.

Thanks!!

[Wulfen]

There is always extensive playtesting going on.

I'm not trying to sound like a complete dork here, but how was this not found much earlier?

I hate seeing such radical changes coming after release like this. You may not see it as radical, but what is the purpose of 'Graverobber' if they can't, well, dig up corpses? The way I see it, you just basically ditched an entire mechanic, as the keyword now has no use. People are saying that Mort can do the same thing anyway. No, he can't. If he doesn't flip the suit, he gets nothing. I'd much rather use up all my actions for a guaranteed counter than take my chances on an unlikely flip.

Hopefully I'm just over-reacting here, on the actual changes. I do, however, appreciate your willingness to discuss the changes.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The purpose for 'Graverobber' is that the models with that trait can still pick up corpse counters.

[MEdwards]

but what is the purpose of 'Graverobber' if they can't, well, dig up corpses?

Corpse counters are not placed onto the battlefield when a model is killed unless a model with Graverobber is being used. So the ability still serves some purpose just not to the extent that it was before.

[Kealios]

Gravedigger is required for a model to interact with Corpse Tokens. If you intend to carry one, you need Gravedigger. Some mobs, like the Canine Remains, have an ability to transfer the tokens they carry. Others, like the Vulture, never really "carry" the tokens, but rather act as an extension for another model to grab one.

In short, it isnt useless. It just isnt uber like it was.

[AoM]

I'm not trying to sound like a complete dork here, but how was this not found much earlier?

This happens with any game. As you've probably heard time and time again, once something is released to the general public, the amount of eyes looking at the rules explodes exponentially.

I agree that this seems a bit like a major change, but having played with and against the Resurrectionists during playtesting, I can safely say that you're not being hurt by this as much as it seems. You just won't go on a summoning spree for the first turn or two.

[Wulfen]

I find it hard to believe you WM players wouldn't have found ways to abuse this.

In any case, hopefully it's not as bad as I think, but I think in Nico's case particularly, the going will be rough. McM can take body parts early, so he may not be hit as hard; Nico doesn't have that option. But whatever.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

I find it hard to believe you WM players wouldn't have found ways to abuse this.

We were busy testing other broken combos for the other 14 different masters and more with models.

Some things just fall through the cracks sometimes.

In any case, hopefully it's not as bad as I think, but I think in Nico's case particularly, the going will be rough. McM can take body parts early, so he may not be hit as hard; Nico doesn't have that option. But whatever.

Nicodem should be different than McMourning or else you'd just have another McMourning with a top hat.

Nicodem has a lot of different tricks up his sleeve. You can see some of the other suggestions and tips that other folks have put up about him. To give you ideas other than spamming a list that immediately gets bigger every turn.

[DangerousBeans]

RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE!

No, it's fair. Them doggies were far too good with that ability.

[EricJ]

Honestly, I am not at all worried about Nicodem, as I feel even without an unbalanced gimmick of using dogs to get free corpses piled up he is one of the strongest masters. And as mentioned, the Graverobber characteristic is included for models to be able to USE corpses, and I think is a much more useful characteristic overall if it's not permanently linked to an ability to easily generate corpses.

[jmp_mydog]

Even though they can't just spend their action to "find" corpse tokens, doesn't the graveyard special terrain pice still allow them to (1) Interact to find a corpse counter?

Given that that special piece shows up in multiple encounter tables it seems that you'll still have a means to grab corpse counters.

[EricJ]

yep, it's true! there are other mechanism in the game for getting corpses

[capcap]

Thanks for the change. Having seen quite a few games were people literally run out of corpse and zombie tokens it was time to reign in the crazy model generating combo that happens when each model in your army can create a new model in a turn or two.