Nathan Caroland Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 EVer since I started up with Wyrd, one of the things that I keep hearing from folks, in an almost 'nasty' manner at times, is 'omg, what the hell, these would be great but they are in the wrong scale!' or 'I'm confused by what 32mm heroic is', even when you give them exact measurements or other companies to compare to. It boggles the mind, it really, really does. So my question is, am I describing these wrong, can they be told in another way, or are there just folks out there that no matter what are a few cards short of a full deck and don't get it, even when you give them comparable companies to match up with (Reaper, Privateer Press .. hell GW even for that matter). Does the whole 32mm thing throw folks off? I think Privateer Press actually describes theirs as 30mm yes? Reaper does 28mm 'heroic' but hey, if you haven't measured a miniature of theirs in some time, you'll find they are WAY past that. Should I just drop the description altogether? Better way to describe it? Now I know there are you die hard folks out there with your 28mm. That's all good - if that is your scale, then Wyrd isn't going to suit you, though I do get a tad 'irked' to hear 'too bad they chose the wrong scale'. Heh. Alrighty there buddy. Anyhow, most of these questions usually stem from news over at TMP, which generally I like to read, but have found, more than anything of late, that there are some rather 'dense' folks at times when it comes to this sort of stuff. But maybe that's just me. Curious for your imput. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritual Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I don't think I'll ever understand this hang-up some have about 28 mm scale. I understand that those who game with 28 mm minis want to use 28 mm minis and not 32 mm or 35 mm ones. But they also seem to want to force everyone to either make strict 28 mm scale or strict 54 mm scale and that to have something inbetween or close to these would be some kind of abomination and a danger to the entire mini industry. As long as the scale is defined I see no problem having different scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 No prob if you're painting show pieces. I'd guess the vast majority of game armies out there are GW "28"mm. People see great stuff from makers other than GW and think hey, that would make a cool and unique hero for my army. But then they see it's not exactly to scale. They think how hard it may be to squeeze him onto a 28mm base and how awkward he'd look towering over the rest of the unit and they are put off. So, would it be possible to keep a photo on your site with a line-up of figures from various manufacturers? What if it was done in silhouette? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I tend to be a bit scale anal....Not overly, but it does concern me. Its not so much that I game, but I just want my minis to look realistic together...I don't care so much that a few are taller or shorter, as that adds realism. I just don't like the HUGE differences. I ordered some Darkson Design ALT. WW2 minis a while back...They are supposedly 28 mm, but that has to be measured to their chins or something....I like them, but the scale really turns me off. As does the scale with my Forgeworld buildings....even a 'normal' sized mini would have to squeeze through the front door..... As to whether you should keep the 32 mm moniker...I say YES, just because it does help to have an idea on how big they are....Maybe even have a link on the site that shows them next to a ruler, or next to 'popular' minis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Been done before, Eric did a line up some time back (I'll dig up the picture). The thing is, these miniatures are pretty much in scale with the other lines out there and folks really just aren't getting past the whole measurement bit as I suppose not many folks bother to take a ruler out and take a look at what size miniatures they have in hand. Silhouette, likely not, as hell, I remember that one gal, Sophie (can't remember her company name but she did a plague marine, treant, giant, etc) did that and got a nice little letter from GW over that. The problem is I think, that many of these companies out there have pieces that fit right nicely with the Wyrd line, and by that I mean size wise, but folks just don't seem to understand it, even when given the sizes of them or even comprable companies. Thus I'm trying to find another solution. Keep telling them 32mm 'heroic' or just drop it altogether? Find another way to describe them, or is it just a choice few that, no matter what, will bitch and bawl because it wasn't handed to them on a silver platter and isn't 28mm, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I still think it's funny about reaper minis, who just keep saying 28mm despite put out some that are probably closer to 38mm And no one seems to complain about that... I don't really see anything to do, and it's in the category of "can't please everyone, all the time" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Here we go for the line up that Eric did a bit back. I went and pulled out some Sisters Repentia and they are actually as tall as Viktoria so perhaps I should take a picture there. Have two Werner girlies done for Reaper that I just dug out as well and put them up beside the miniatures and they are in line with size as well, one larger, one just a touch smaller. Believe me, I'm not having a rant here, I'm basically trying to find the best way to display, advertise and generally get the information out in an accurate manner. Well .. I am having a small rant. Just gets me arse a bit when folks immediately toss something to the side without actually looking at what their scale of miniatures truely are vs taking the whole 28mm heroic bit to heart. And yup, completely agree with you Eric, I can't, but damned if I don't try. Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 You're probably screwed. I know I've had all kinds of problems straight from hell over Spyglass. People don't measure. They just don't know. All they know is (generalisation I know) GW is 28mm (wrong) and LotR is 25mm (also wrong). Nathan I should like to introduce Mr Head to Mr Wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 :frusty: :iam: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirlo Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 It's the historical crowd to blame. They're old and probably going blind. They just don't understand any other term than '28mm' like they don't understand their childrens music. They don't even know what 28mm is, it's just something they heard somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Crunch Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Well, the other problem is 28mm (or 32, 54, etc...) from where to where. Some folks measure from bottom of the foot to eye level, others from foot to top of head, and some will even include whatever apparel is on the head. One thing I hate about the way minis are marketed is that 25mm isn't a scale, it's a measurement. a scale would be 25mm:1.5m (1/60 scale). This would be the actual scale of the mini and make my life a heck of a lot easier when it comes to making terrain for my games. I think that's why I like CAV so much, it's 1/160 scale, not 6mm, 15mm or some other measurement. Now, granted there are some variations (aircraft specifically, but that's slowly being fixed) but the vast majority is in that scale. My suggestion is buck the Xmm system and give the actual scale. Of course that would confuse all the stupid people out there. Wow, didn't really mean for that to turn into a rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Here's a pic I took back in April of some female minis next to a 1:43 scale car. Hasslefree Tiriel; Dark Sword Amazon; SJB Alejandra (CMON); I-kore Commander X; Grenadier female evil warrior (1987). I didn't have a Wyrd mini at the time but do now so maybe I'll do a new line-up. - I've since held Taelor next to the car and she looks just like she's giving directions anywho, you can see that the middle 3 all look about the same height, but if you look closely, the Dark Sword mini is standing on a hill so she's actually smaller. Tyriel looks shorter, but she's not standing straight, so hard to tell, but "scale" I would say is the same because not all women are the same height IRL. That would go for Commander X who, if you look at her eyes and the fact that she's on tip-toe is still shorter than Alejandra. Now the obvious difference is the old Grenadier mini who is actually 25mm from the soles of her feet to the top of her head. She appears to be a dwarf to these others. So the short of it is, I think I'd be okay if the 4 newer ones were described as the same scale, but if the old one was included I'd be pissed off. (by the way, most of my minis were the old size and when I got back into collecting boy was I annoyed) What about going for a more vague description such as "standard table-top gaming scale"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Crunch Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 What about going for a more vague description such as "standard table-top gaming scale"? The trick is, which "standard" table-top gaming scale? Everyone has their favorite and think it should be the standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 But that's the point, isn't it? These would fit in with most games, just probably not Confrontation or anything using 54mm. As far as I can tell all others are reasonably close in size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Crunch Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Don't forget folks who use 6, 10, and 15mm which of course these would be too large for, unless they're being used as giants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Then 'eff' them all I say! Convert your scale to INCHES! By garsh, you're an American and we don't like that fancy dancy millimeter scales anyhow. We don't like that goofy Futball thingy either. Everyone knows that a football is oval shaped, and meant to pass...long is preferable, especially if its for a touchdown. And what the hell is a lorry? A lorry is a girls name, not a full diesel bound 18 wheeled vehicle capable of transporting our beloved hot dogs and teevees. And while were on it...I DON'T understand my kids music. Why does that lady have the best milkshakes in the yard? What ARE you going to do with all that Junk up in your trunk? See....now THATS a rant!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdukino Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Then 'eff' them all I say! Convert your scale to INCHES! By garsh, you're an American and we don't like that fancy dancy millimeter scales anyhow. We don't like that goofy Futball thingy either. Everyone knows that a football is oval shaped, and meant to pass...long is preferable, especially if its for a touchdown. And what the hell is a lorry? A lorry is a girls name, not a full diesel bound 18 wheeled vehicle capable of transporting our beloved hot dogs and teevees. And while were on it...I DON'T understand my kids music. Why does that lady have the best milkshakes in the yard? What ARE you going to do with all that Junk up in your trunk? See....now THATS a rant!! About football... that the heck.. it's foot ball... you know foot, on the most south region of your body... To kick the ball with... Hello... kick it once and then run around with a FOOTball becouse it's to clumsly shaped to actually work to kick....what's that?... you should call it runball then, tossball if you prefer, or who cares about the ball just ram into eachother, and the team with the least hospitalised players win.... sjeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadAsbestos Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 That milkshake song is awesome! FF- just have links to fansites w/ scale comparisons on them, and you should be able to bypass GW and their lawyers. As for what to call the scale, whatever. You'll piss someone off! TMPers are notorious sticks-in-the-mud. At least the Frothers are fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadAsbestos Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Cdukino- if that is the case, shouldn't you folks call the thing on the end of your leg "33cms"? I'm confused. 33centimetersball is an awfully clumsy name... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 About football... that the heck.. it's foot ball... you know foot, on the most south region of your body... To kick the ball with... Hello... kick it once and then run around with a FOOTball becouse it's to clumsly shaped to actually work to kick....what's that?... you should call it runball then, tossball if you prefer, or who cares about the ball just ram into eachother, and the team with the least hospitalised players win.... sjeez. Tossball? Good gravy Lady, are you trying to get me killed over her? :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Cindy, Don't be silly. If you kick the ball, it's kickball. Then you run bases after kicking it. And if you're talking about that recent world cup, the half the time they were smacking the ball with their chests and faces. Maybe it should be called faceball. I like the idea about the team with the least hospitalized players wins - but I think the British already do that; it's called Rugby. Speaking of sport and the British - they got the craziest names. Why they have a sport no one can understand and named it after a tiny loud crop-eating insect. You don't see Texans out playing a game of "locusts" do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritual Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 you should call it runball then, tossball if you prefer. ... or rugby? But... then they would have to lose all their body armour and such and maybe they don't want to do that? EDIT: It seems Vince already mentioned rugby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritual Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Speaking of sport and the British - they got the craziest names. Why they have a sport no one can understand and named it after a tiny loud crop-eating insect. They also have that thing when they roll a cheese down a hill and the entire town runs after it. I don't get that! How do you win that? It seems no one ever manages to catch the cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegamer Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Of course then there's the Spanish sport of angering some bulls and letting them loose on the population once a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted July 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Heh, ya'll cheered me up immensely reading this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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