"After targeting" Abilities

[Hollow]

I know that this question was asked previously many times in different forms about different abilities:
https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/145419-i-think-i-just-realized-something-that-helps-lucius/
https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/154024-visual-explanation-of-attack-duels-aimed-at-new-players/
https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/154771-youkos-whispered-lies/

But the answer is still unclear to me. Should effects of abilities that mention targeting be resolved immediately after initial effect? Or should they be resolved according to Detailed Timing (step 2 d I)? Abilities examples:

Quote

Intimidating Authority: After this model is targeted with an Attack Action, it may discard a card to have the Attacking model suffer a  to that Action's duel.

Quote

Take the Hit: After an enemy model targets a friendly models within 2 with an Attack Action, this model may discard a card to Place itself into base contact with the friendly model and become the target of the new Attack Action (ignoring range, LoS, and targeting restrictions).

Detailed Timing (p 35):

Quote

2. Take Actions
...
c. Declare Target.
d. Perform Duels.
I. Modify The Duel with Soulstones, Abilities, or other game effects (Attacking model first).

So conditions to trigger mentioned abilities are clear - the model itself or another friendly model was targeted with an Attack Action. But what's the exact timing to resolve the Ability's effect? Immediately or during dedicated step 2 d I? It meters when attacking model modifies the Duel with Focus, for example.

[solkan]

2 hours ago, hollow1351 said:

I know that this question was asked previously many times in different forms about different abilities:
https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/145419-i-think-i-just-realized-something-that-helps-lucius/
https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/154024-visual-explanation-of-attack-duels-aimed-at-new-players/
https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/154771-youkos-whispered-lies/

But the answer is still unclear to me. Should effects of abilities that mention targeting be resolved immediately after initial effect? Or should they be resolved according to Detailed Timing (step 2 d I)? Abilities examples:

Detailed Timing (p 35):

So conditions to trigger mentioned abilities are clear - the model itself or another friendly model was targeted with an Attack Action. But what's the exact timing to resolve the Ability's effect? Immediately or during dedicated step 2 d I? It meters when attacking model modifies the Duel with Focus, for example.

Take the Hit and Intimidating Authority are good abilities to quote because they are two examples of abilities which cause an effect that is resolved at different times.

Take the Hit's effect resolves in/after Step C (Declare Target) because its condition is "After an enemy model targets" and there aren't any other timing rules governing its effect which say to resolve it later.

Intimidating Authority's effect is resolved during Step D because that's an effect that modifies a duel.  The model with Intimidating Authority waits until Step D to decide whether to discard the card.

 

 

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, solkan said:

Intimidating Authority's effect is resolved during Step D because that's an effect that modifies a duel.  The model with Intimidating Authority waits until Step D to decide whether to discard the card.

No it doesn't. Intimidating Authority is used after the model is targeted. If it was a decision that was made at the before flipping step it would say before flipping. Just because something modifies the duel doesn't mean a decision is held off until you actually get to the duel.

[Yore Huckleberry]

2 hours ago, solkan said:

Take the Hit and Intimidating Authority are good abilities to quote because they are two examples of abilities which cause an effect that is resolved at different times.

Take the Hit's effect resolves in/after Step C (Declare Target) because its condition is "After an enemy model targets" and there aren't any other timing rules governing its effect which say to resolve it later.

Intimidating Authority's effect is resolved during Step D because that's an effect that modifies a duel.  The model with Intimidating Authority waits until Step D to decide whether to discard the card.

 

 

I've always played Intimidating Authority as an Ability that you may use in step C, but whose effect is applied at step D. The difference is subtle, but it means, eg, that an Intimidating Authority model must determine whether to discard a card BEFORE an attacking model chooses whether to reduce the Focused condition to add a positive modifier. This application of the Ability's timing also means that Intimidating Authority models don't know whether the attacker will choose to reduce Focused, etc.

Flexible Morality has the same timing issue. There are a handful of others like Beer Goggles that aren't wholly clear, because they're Activated Abilities that are Activated in step C, but whose effect is in step D.

I imagine a lot of people intuitively play it Solkan's way, which doesn't affect anything else in a majority of cases. It's mostly when Take the Hit changes the target that you need to determine whether any of the effects should be generated in Step C, whether they carry over to new targets (Intimidating Authority, eg, places an effect on the Attacker, rather than being a matter of the Target being any particular thing, so it can theoretically carry over). Honestly, it's worth asking your local TO how they want you to play it.