Youko's Whispered Lies

[Hollow]

What exact timing is "When another model takes an Action"? It means before performing a duel?
As I understand, according to Detailed Timing section (p. 35), taking an Action consists of steps "a" to "f".
Maybe it can be reworded some way? There are many other wordings with more clear timing like "Focus", "Adaptive evolution", "Magical Influence", "Press the Advantage" etc.

[Adran]

2 minutes ago, hollow1351 said:

It meters since Whispered Lies is Once Per Activation. If you declare using it at the very beginning and Action fails, it can't be used anymore this Activation. If it can be declared before determining total (C.2.d.IV), then you can decide to not use it on the first action if you see that it will fail and save for the second one.
I mean, I don't try to make using it easier. If it's related to declaring Action, it's ok. I just propose to use some other wording for it, like "Before performing a duel" or "After model declares an Action".

Sorry, I was being slightly factious. It can matter when.

As I said, I would state when I declare the action that I am using it. (as that is the first step of taking an action, and so "when I take an action" effects probably should happen here)

The latest you could claim it should used would be the modify the duel step (c.2.d.I)(which is before cards are flipped). That would still allow you to find out if you have passed terrifying before using it. 

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Iirc, taking an action means declaring an action, which is a specific step (I believe the first step of an action is declaring it).

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

5 hours ago, hollow1351 said:

What exact timing is "When another model takes an Action"? It means before performing a duel?
As I understand, according to Detailed Timing section (p. 35), taking an Action consists of steps "a" to "f".
Maybe it can be reworded some way? There are many other wordings with more clear timing like "Focus", "Adaptive evolution", "Magical Influence", "Press the Advantage" etc.

Actions use Steps 1-6, Duels use Steps A-F. The damage timing on p. 35 conveniently swaps the step names for Actions/Duels. Effects with “when a model takes an action” would resolve during Step 1 of resolving an Action.

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Iirc, taking an action means declaring an action, which is a specific step (I believe the first step of an action is declaring it).

I think “taking an action” specifically means “resolving an action”, based on Ice Mirror and Quick Cure.

[Hollow]

3 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

The damage timing on p. 35 conveniently swaps the step names for Actions/Duels.

Didn't get it. How it swaps? As I can see, damage timing is described on p. 34 and it doesn't use those terms (Action, Duel). According to Detailed Timing (p. 35), Action uses steps a-f, Duel I-VI.

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Iirc, taking an action means declaring an action, which is a specific step (I believe the first step of an action is declaring it).

Not for you personally, but maybe word "declare" should be used instead of "take" to make in more clear?

[Adran]

Page 21 tells you a model may take actions. Once you decide to take an action you resolve them following the rules on page 23

Or looking at the chart on page 35 Activation phase C.2 is take action. 

Since the ability provides a suit for any duels that the action  performs, it should be fairly obvious that the ability needs to resolve before Activation Phase C.2.d.IV

I'm not sure that it matters much where exactly you resolve it, but I would say that the first step of taking an action is Declare an action and at that point it probably should state it is using Whispered lies

11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Iirc, taking an action means declaring an action, which is a specific step (I believe the first step of an action is declaring it).

Taking an action is the whole process. The first step of taking an action is declaring the action. They aren't quite the same thing. 

[Hollow]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Since the ability provides a suit for any duels that the action  performs, it should be fairly obvious that the ability needs to resolve before Activation Phase C.2.d.IV

I'm not sure that it matters much where exactly you resolve it, but I would say that the first step of taking an action is Declare an action and at that point it probably should state it is using Whispered lies

It meters since Whispered Lies is Once Per Activation. If you declare using it at the very beginning and Action fails, it can't be used anymore this Activation. If it can be declared before determining total (C.2.d.IV), then you can decide to not use it on the first action if you see that it will fail and save for the second one.
"Take" seems ambiguous in this context for me. At least as for not native speaker. It can be interpreted as fact of declaring action or as whole process of resolving it.
I mean, I don't try to make using it easier. If it's related to declaring Action, it's ok. I just propose to use some other wording for it, like "Before performing a duel" or "After model declares an Action".

[Maniacal_cackle]

Yeah, sorry, ignore my post before. I should have pulled up the rules card and read it first to see what exactly the ability was.

[Hollow]

16 minutes ago, Adran said:

The latest you could claim it should used would be the modify the duel step (c.2.d.I)(which is before cards are flipped). That would still allow you to find out if you have passed terrifying before using it. 

Oh, nice. Didn't notice c.2.d.I states to modify the Duel with Abilities. Now it's clear for me. Thank you.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

6 hours ago, hollow1351 said:

Didn't get it. How it swaps? As I can see, damage timing is described on p. 34 and it doesn't use those terms (Action, Duel). According to Detailed Timing (p. 35), Action uses steps a-f, Duel I-VI.

If you look at p. 10 (Performing a Duel) and p. 23 (Resolving an Action), you will see what I mean.