GG3

[DeadManTalking]

I know it's only been a short while since the reveal of GG3 but I'm sure at least some of you have gotten some games in. I've been trying to make lists around a tournament coming up but I find myself a little lost. So for those of you that have gotten games in of GG3 who are you favoring for the new strats? I'm looking to focus on being able to score 4 for the strat each game and if I can score schemes as well then that's fine and dandy. For the 3 rounds we have Corrupted Objects, Guard the Stash, and Covert Operations.

[Clement]

Do you know the deployment in guard the stash?  It feels like it's going to have a huge impact in how you play it.  In standard/wedge deploy you need to control the two middle points AND both of your opponents points by end of 5, but in corner/flank deploy you can get by only holding the 4 centerline points.

[QTpierogi]

I think Jack finally comes back to the game as this season looks more favourable for him, than GG2. 3/4 of new strategies favours him as they either focus on controlling the center or killing things(also you can put your curse tokens from tormented models to one guilty and leave it at the back of your deployment or protected by some model with take the hit). From scheme point, leave your mark came back and it was good for Jack, for public demonstration tormented have a decent pool of 5-7ss models, which are slow but tough both in and out of keyword, as any other melee beatstick master Jack1 can easily score first point of "in your face" and also crew have enough move tricks for enemies to score secret meetup.

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 minutes ago, QTpierogi said:

also you can put your curse tokens from tormented models to one guilty and leave it at the back of your deployment or protected by some model with take the hit).

I don't think this works. You only consider the Guilty an enemy for your abilities, actions, and triggers from memory. You don't consider it an enemy for strategy purposes (same way it dying doesn't give you points on Reckoning).

[Maniacal_cackle]

I don't really understand the strategies and schemes yet... But I assume we are here for hot takes! So Let's GO!!!

Load Em Up:

Of course the ones to think of are McMourning 2 and Reva for this, as our marker specialists. Also don't forget how this combos with like spread them out (6 scheme markers scores you three points, since you don't have to remove the markers).

Public Demonstration:

Catch and release but much harder in some ways... In other ways, more flexible as you can afford to lose a model or two over the course of the game.

Seamus springs to mind (double doxy gst + anything is going to be very solid for this). If you have public demonstration + catch and release in the pool, Molly is going to be amazing at this as well.

Public demonstration + hidden martyrs is another powerful combo to watch out for.

Yan Lo almost likes this, but not sure he can come up with a good combo... Maybe Kenshiro/Komainu/Gokudo.

Set the Trap:

Lol, McMourning 2 of course! Although he seems a bit rough this GG in general... Von Schtook 2 seems great at it.

In Your Face:

Any of our killy stuff, but the tricky part is having something expensive and alive in their deployment zone.

Funnily enough Reva 1's grave golem is good at the second point, but scoring the first point is awkward as she doesn't kill up close.

I wonder if you could do a funky Seamus crew where your most expensive hire is Bete Noire...

I think this season merits experimenting with crews full of cheaper models.

EDIT: Another combo to watch out for here is Breakthrough, since your expensive model can go score both.

Secret Meetup:

Lol, Yan Lo 2 is going to be pretty devastating at this.

[DeadManTalking]

16 minutes ago, Clement said:

Do you know the deployment in guard the stash?  It feels like it's going to have a huge impact in how you play it.  In standard/wedge deploy you need to control the two middle points AND both of your opponents points by end of 5, but in corner/flank deploy you can get by only holding the 4 centerline points.

That round is Wedge deployment. I was thinking Seamus for that round since he can jump to whatever point he's needed at and can potentially delete a model off a point as well. Only issue is my Seamus hasn't come in yet. So looking for alternatives. 

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't think this works. You only consider the Guilty an enemy for your abilities, actions, and triggers from memory. You don't consider it an enemy for strategy purposes (same way it dying doesn't give you points on Reckoning).

Your Model would be taking the Interact Action to pass a Curse Token, why wouldn't it be able to treat the Guilty as an Enemy during that Action? I don't think you can use Reckoning as a comparison because the Player is checking Enemy status EoT for it.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 

In Your Face:

Funnily enough Reva 1's grave golem is good at the second point, but scoring the first point is awkward as she doesn't kill up close.

 

 

Luckily you don't have to kill up close, you can kill the model near the opposing leader for the point (any leader). Reva's 3" push seems pretty relevant there, knock the model down to 1 HP and use Pulled Here and There to push the model through a Pyre to w/in 3" of the opposing leader. Burning goes off before scoring, and the scheme only needs the model to be killed (no specification to a friendly model needing to kill it). I think Reva1 looks pretty good for it when taking a corpse crew. Reva2 probably has an easier time getting the reveal but scoring the end with a hired Lampad might be tricky. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

You could read it that way! I read it as the strategy needing them to be enemy though.

For the In Your Face, it can be awkward relying on the enemy master, but certainly will come up sometimes! And an upside of Reva 1 keeping her distance is it gets harder for the opponent to score it.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I'm having discussions elsewhere that really drive home I have no clue, though xD Everyone is reporting some interesting results.

For me, I did have a game with McMourning 1 (against Pandora, one of the worst matchups) on Covert Operation.

The experience there was that there's just a massive benefit to surviving to the late game, and also the strategies of being extra cagey and sniping the points and bubbling up both seem pretty viable. I imagine on some pools/boards, the bubbling up strategy will be dominant though.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Man I should organise my thoughts better... Apologies for the multi post...

There are multiple things pushing towards having multiple cheaper models in this Gaining Ground. I think we could all do with a brain reset in terms of what a 'good' crew is. In this case, I suggest people experiment with some cheap crews.

For example, the Bete Noire list I mentioned earlier:

• Seamus with whisper
• Copycat
• Bete noire
• Dead Doxy GST
• Dead Doxy GST
• Gravedigger
• Nurse
• Rotten Belle
• 6 stones

Actually has a LOT of scoring power in this GG, so it may be a good list (despite the models being way cheaper than my average list with three 9-10 stone beaters xD).

[DeadManTalking]

I feel like Yan2 while already a great master just became like the number 1 pick if not contender for number 1 in a guard the stash round. So many ways to yoink enemy's of the markers.  Which probably makes him great for Covert Ops as well

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 minutes ago, DeadManTalking said:

I feel like Yan2 while already a great master just became like the number 1 pick if not contender for number 1 in a guard the stash round. So many ways to yoink enemy's of the markers.  Which probably makes him great for Covert Ops as well

And Cursed Objects - he is fantastic at kidnap, isolate, and kill.

And carve a path I assume he'll be good at.

But I'm not sure he'll be any stronger before. He was already so strong xD Will be a nice upside to not have to worry about loadstone stranding him.

[Fingalen]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:43 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't think this works. You only consider the Guilty an enemy for your abilities, actions, and triggers from memory. You don't consider it an enemy for strategy purposes (same way it dying doesn't give you points on Reckoning).

I am actually not sure as well, but to me it seems like the enemy only restricion described by the strategy refers to the interact action models with cursed objects can make. Therefore if a tormented model makes this interact action, they can consider the guilty an enemy for its purposes.

[Adran]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:43 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't think this works. You only consider the Guilty an enemy for your abilities, actions, and triggers from memory. You don't consider it an enemy for strategy purposes (same way it dying doesn't give you points on Reckoning).

I think it might work, as you are considering it an enemy during your interact action. It doesn't deny points, so from that view point it's not a game breaking issue.

Is it a good plan? Is it worth spending 2 actions from a solid model to pass both its tokens to a guilty? ( and probably 5 actions overall) Probably sometimes, but if you know you are facing Jack, you can often prepare for it by having a fast killing model to threaten the guilty that is hiding. 

You're also having the slight loss of control that you can't pass your cursed objects to the opponent just before you kill them, ( at least until they give their tokens to you, potentially costing even more actions from Jack or other expensive model to score).

I'd say it was a good tactic to know about, but not always the best

[Fingalen]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:11 PM, Adran said:

I think it might work, as you are considering it an enemy during your interact action. It doesn't deny points, so from that view point it's not a game breaking issue.

Is it a good plan? Is it worth spending 2 actions from a solid model to pass both its tokens to a guilty? ( and probably 5 actions overall) Probably sometimes, but if you know you are facing Jack, you can often prepare for it by having a fast killing model to threaten the guilty that is hiding. 

You're also having the slight loss of control that you can't pass your cursed objects to the opponent just before you kill them, ( at least until they give their tokens to you, potentially costing even more actions from Jack or other expensive model to score).

I'd say it was a good tactic to know about, but not always the best

Actually I think it would be totally broken, as you could play it in outcasts too and keep the guilty with all tokens collected in the pine box for the whole game (I don't think it is easy to kill 33 hiding somewhere and even you would, you still need to kill the guilty. Good luck, if you want to make it before turn5.)

[QTpierogi]

You can't, because pinebox is enemy only. If I remember correctly, there's no options in outcast to bury friendly non-obliteration model.

[Fingalen]

2 minutes ago, QTpierogi said:

You can't, because pinebox is enemy only. If I remember correctly, there's no options in outcast to bury friendly non-obliteration model.

My bad. I thought you might be able to make them tormented by an upgrade. But those are enemy only, too.

[Adran]

51 minutes ago, malyzubor said:

Actually I think it would be totally broken, as you could play it in outcasts too and keep the guilty with all tokens collected in the pine box for the whole game (I don't think it is easy to kill 33 hiding somewhere and even you would, you still need to kill the guilty. Good luck, if you want to make it before turn5.)

33 can't give it's tokens to the guilty, so there would be 2 tokens on the table (.assuming everything else in the list is tormented). It also can't bury the guilty since the pine box is enemy only, and I can't see a way to turn 33 tormented. 

( even if there is some way to do it I wouldn't call it totally broken, you've spend 14 ss and several actions to try and hide all those points, and they can still try and kill 33, who might be hard to protect if you're almost 1/3 your crew down for everything else. It's potentially strong, but I'm not sure I see it as game breaking as there is counter play). 

[Fingalen]

As stated above, it is not possible because of other enemy only restrictions. But I personally consider 14ss of models for relatively reliable 3-4vp denial rather good bargain. And killing 33 that is actively hiding deep in your deployment zone not an easy task for most crews... 🙂 But luckily this is not possible because you can't make friendly models Tormented.

[QTpierogi]

In rezzers you still can protect guilty with model, which have take the hit(even if it can't give it's token to guilty). It wouldn't be impossible for opponent to score strategy points, but at least you can delay them scoring to prevent scoring all 4 points. Or try to hide guilty with coffin markers(which takes 10ss for emissary, who isn't that strong in tormented since hanged isn't undead)

[Maniacal_cackle]

The opponent can just give you their strategy tokens before killing you.