A couple strategy ideas (and one errata).

[Maniacal_cackle]

For strategies, I was thinking of some that would reward hiring lower cost models to give them a bit of a boost in game, since it is frequently complained they're a bit too weak. I also think that ideally some (but not all) strategies would not be slanted towards summoners. So here's some thoughts I threw together for a hypothetical gaining grounds. Let me know what you think!

Errata: if a model would be summoned without an upgrade, attach a summon upgrade to it. It has no effect and no plentiful limit. (Ideally word it so models like Ikiryo and Som'er can still eliminate the upgrade).

This just patches up a lot of loopholes in the rules. I can exorcise Asami's summons, but not Toshiro's? What? A summon should count as a summon, full stop.

Strategy 1: Claim territory.

Set up markers like in Turf War/Leylines.

At the end of each turn, if there are more strategy markers with a friendly model within X" than you have scored points for this strategy, gain 1 VP.

Possible addition: Models with summon upgrades are ignored for this strategy.

Strategy 2: Hold Your Ground

At the end of each turn, if there are more enemy models engaged by friendly models with lower costs than you have scored points for this strategy, gain 1 VP.

Possible addition: Models with summon upgrades are ignored for this strategy.

 

What do you think? I don't think you'd want to have a blanket rule that models with summon upgrades are ignored for strategies, but I think it could be a neat thing to tack on to some strategies so I put it as an option for both. Playtesting could determine the final form of each strategy, of course.

Both these hypothetical strategies reward low cost models. I also like that Hold Your Ground creates a strategy where the flow of battle is determined by the position of each crew, but isn't killing oriented like the previous three incarnations of this type of strategy (Reckoning, Public Enemies, Recover Evidence).

[Maniacal_cackle]

I suppose you could also change it to "Models summoned this turn are not counted for this strategy", or "Friendly models summoned this turn are not counted for this strategy" (so that your opponent can still score off of them).

[DuBlanck]

I like the Claim Turf War strat - feels like a decent way to force interaction while avoiding the moshpit that OG Turf War caused (that was the 6" from center one, yes?).

I'm not sure it would actually solve the killing 'problem', but it would make higher model counts more viable.

[Maniacal_cackle]

17 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

I like the Claim Turf War strat - feels like a decent way to force interaction while avoiding the moshpit that OG Turf War caused (that was the 6" from center one, yes?).

I'm not sure it would actually solve the killing 'problem', but it would make higher model counts more viable.

Another thing I was thinking was "models on the opponent's table half that are at least 6" apart."

That way you still get a similar vibe, but without brawls around each turf war marker.

[DuBlanck]

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

"models on the opponent's table half that are at least 6" apart."

I like the defined brawl spots, it was only having one brawl in the same place every time that made it boring - four(five?) options of which flag you want to capture/defend, and reactive play based on positions, sounds more fun than Team Leap hopping around the table evading interaction. 

[Mycellanious]

5 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

I like the defined brawl spots, it was only having one brawl in the same place every time that made it boring - four(five?) options of which flag you want to capture/defend, and reactive play based on positions, sounds more fun than Team Leap hopping around the table evading interaction. 

What about something like an actual capture the point scenario? You each drop 3 markers on your half, and get points for having models near the markers. 

[ooshawn]

I agree completely, whoever came up with summoned models have to attach upgrades was big brain AF.  Also I do like summoned models not counting for the turn they come in.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Another errata idea:

Stunned should prevent triggers from being declared OR RESOLVED.

It is pretty wonky that you can use defensive triggers against stunning attacks (particularly the Fade Away trigger, but even like Basse's trigger).

[DuBlanck]

On 2/1/2021 at 9:32 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Stunned should prevent triggers from being declared OR RESOLVED.

I think there's some iffy ground there, as you can get reduced value out of a Stunned model spending AP elsewhere, but you can't activate a model that died because it's only defensive tech was invalidated.

[Mycellanious]

On 2/1/2021 at 4:32 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Another errata idea:

Stunned should prevent triggers from being declared OR RESOLVED.

It is pretty wonky that you can use defensive triggers against stunning attacks (particularly the Fade Away trigger, but even like Basse's trigger).

Idk, Stunned is already very powerful. This feels like an unnecessarily strong blanket change to try to nerf one very strong model. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

It's not really for one model. It is a bit wonky the condition meant to stop triggers can't stop the initial trigger.

[Adran]

19 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

It's not really for one model. It is a bit wonky the condition meant to stop triggers can't stop the initial trigger.

But only in the cases where it is a resistance trigger and you need to do an attack to get the stunned out there. Which is probably very rare, as about half the sources of stunned don't allow resistance triggers. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

But only in the cases where it is a resistance trigger and you need to do an attack to get the stunned out there. Which is probably very rare, as about half the sources of stunned don't allow resistance triggers. 

How do you figure half? I believe there's 13 models in the game that ignore resistance triggers.

Ressers alone have 9 models that stun on attack.

It seems quite wonky on Zoraida, Basse, Horsemen, Zipp, etc (although at least that's mostly only for DF attacks). And since you can often activate immediately after receiving the stun, it's super difficult to tech against defensive triggers (other than those 13 models).

[Adran]

21 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

How do you figure half? I believe there's 13 models in the game that ignore resistance triggers.

Ressers alone have 9 models that stun on attack.

It seems quite wonky on Zoraida, Basse, Horsemen, Zipp, etc (although at least that's mostly only for DF attacks). And since you can often activate immediately after receiving the stun, it's super difficult to tech against defensive triggers (other than those 13 models).

I looked at stunned in the app and when you look at shockwaves, penetrating stench and things like Colette or nellie that just stun, there was a lot. I didn't count, but it seemed like there was about as many targeted triggers/ attacks as not. 

 

EDIT - There are slightly more sources of Stunned that could cause a resistance trigger than "unresisted", but they are spread over Df and Wp attacks. Obviously for Colette it doesn't matter which you use, she can get the trigger on both, but she is in a minority I believe. For most models there are more sources that will stun them without them being able to use a resistance trigger than sources they would be able to get the trigger on. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

I looked at stunned in the app and when you look at shockwaves, penetrating stench and things like Colette or nellie that just stun, there was a lot. I didn't count, but it seemed like there was about as many targeted triggers/ attacks as not. 

Ahhh, okay, that makes sense.