Interested in starting but have questions about keywords

[Almech]

Hi all, interested long time wargamer here, asking for some advice before taking the plunge. Apologies for the wall of text to follow.

I was recommended Malifaux by my FLGS as a theme based alternative to the other games I play.

I've taken a look at the range and done a bit of reading (really enjoy lots of the sculpts), and I just have a few questions regarding how viable mixing and matching keywords in factions are?

For example, The Beast Within/Ferdinand Vogel is an auto include due to his model and lore, which means I would need to play arcanist. I also really like the ranged aesthetic and Gunslingers are henchmen that match that.

However, I'm not at all interested in Marcus as a master nor do I particularly want to run a beast list with Chimera. Instead, Raspunita or Kaeris seem far more interesting. How viable would it be to take either of them along with Vogal and Gunslingers with the +1 recruit cost to both?

I understand each list is supposed to be tailored to each match but this for starting off and only having a limited selection of models.

I'm unlikely to want to play competitively and would be happy just winning occasionally. I just don't want to buy models and get smashed as they can't work together efficiently.

TLDR: Can I combine a werewolf, cowboy and pyromanic angel into a viable list?

Thanks

[Mycellanious]

Short answer: yes

Just be aware that Malifaux is a game where different models play differently in different situations. Vogel is also one of my favorite models (its a werewolf with a top hat and a bow tie!) and I used him a ton before getting Marcus. 

Just be aware that he functions differently in a Marcus crew vs another crew

TL,DR Marcus' crew lets Vogel be aggressive and he tends to be in Wolf form, other crews use Vogel as a support piece in Human form

Marcus' crew give several key advantages that let Vogel preform

1. Upgrades. Vogel is a squishy guy. In a Marcus crew he has tons of defensive Upgrades that let him be aggressive and stay in the fight, where when I run him in other crews if my opponents reach him he tends to die immediately

2. Cards cards cards. Vogel eats cards for breakfast lunch and dinner. In a Marcus crew thats acceptable because Marcus draws a lot of cards. In other crews, you dont have the cards to constantly pitch for Triggers, Intimitating Authority, and Shapeshift. In other crews, my Vogel tends to stay in 1 form and shift maybe once, where in a Marcus crew he shifts nearly every Turn

What Vogel brings to other crews without this is a very good ranged action, a very good bonus action, a very strong heal, and a sitational Scheme Marker removal.

1. Vogel's attack is very strong in all crews. 8" range is a bit short (within walk-charge range of a Mv 4 model), it is not a Projectile so it ignores Cover and Friendly Fire and it attacks Wp, which tends to be lower and gets around a ton of defensive Tech. The Beast's attack is also good at Mele range 2". This allows him to engage many enemies without them engaging him back which I think is currently underrated. It allows him to hit enemies w/o being hit back (without moving) and Interact while stopping them from intetacting. Both also have solid damage tracks of 2/4/5.

2. Impassioned defense is a FANTASTIC bonus action. Giving shielded at Range is strong and is actually better in non-Marcus Arcanist crews, because they tend to have a lot of Armor which stacks very well with Shielded. This bonus action also has a great Mend trigger to Heal 2, when paired with the damage reduction the bonus action provides makes models very tanky. I sometimes put Soul Stone Cache on Vogel so I can stone for the Mend trigger (or Armor Piercing on the Beast's attack). The Beast's bonus action doesnt work with other crews

3. The File Papers ability is soooo good. You cant appreciate it now, but once you get more experience with the game you'll learn how valuable ranged Scheme Marker removal is. His ranged scheme marker removal, that has no Target number AND is baked into another Action for efficiency AND happens without using the Interact Action AND DRAWS YOU A CARD. It makes Vogel a very good scheme defender, he denies Breakthrough, Search the Ruins, and Harness the Leyline very well in all crews and because it just happens when he walks, it means he can keep up with fast scheme runners or pick up 2 Markers in 1 activation. 

Thats about all I got off the top of my head. Let me know if you have any questions. The last thing I'll say is that Vogel can be fun to play with the Mechanical Rider (a versitile model). This is because the Rider can feed cards or suits to Vogel, while Vogel's bonus protects the Rider very well. The best part tho, is that you can use the Mechicanical Rider to reactivate Vogel. So you can be a Human, become a Wolf and attack people, then reactivate and go back to Human, all in the same Turn 😛

[Maniacal_cackle]

One thing to note is some models can happily be taken across the entire faction (like Archie in Ressers) as a decent piece in any crew. They'll typically be at full power in specific crews, but can be okay in others.

One sad thing is there is often a mismatch between what looks amazing and what plays well in most situations. For example, Teddy in Neverborn draws tons of people to the crew, but he is really only viable in specific scenarios (though he is great for those). If you're wanting a generic model that will be semi-competitive, you'll have to make sure to do plenty of research (I suggest the faction specific forums).

If you're wanting viable for casual play, you can make anything work! Give it a go! Malifaux is a game where skill matters a LOT more than crew. However, at equal skill levels, you will really feel gaps in crew power levels.

My suggestion to new players is to buy a core box and play a few trial games. You'll get a good feel for what the crew is missing, and what models to add next.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

On 2/5/2020 at 1:21 AM, Almech said:

For example, The Beast Within/Ferdinand Vogel is an auto include due to his model and lore, which means I would need to play arcanist. I also really like the ranged aesthetic and Gunslingers are henchmen that match that.

However, I'm not at all interested in Marcus as a master nor do I particularly want to run a beast list with Chimera. Instead, Raspunita or Kaeris seem far more interesting.

I can tell you from experience that it doesn't work that way. You are first hooked by a look of a single model or a crew, and you say to yourself: "Nah, I'm not going to play these other crews, I just don't find them interesting." But after some games you become familiar with game mechanics and the desire to experiment with other crews and their specifical schticks becomes an irresistible incentive to buy more and more crews. So grab whatever you like now, you will end up having and playing everything anyway.

[Jesy Blue]

A werewolf, a cowboy, and a pyromanic angel walk into a Guild bar... there were no survivors.

Do it up, Almech!  Play the game your way.

When I first found the game, I fell in love with Tara because of the Through The Hole ability; now I play a half a dozen masters and do a lot of mixing and matching.  As long as you're enjoying yourself it don't matter....

[Almech]

Thanks for all the advice, it's very much appreciated.

Glad that Vogel isn't just limited to the one crew, so I'll probably just try to mix and match what minis I like first and take it from there.

When it comes to outfitting a crew before a game, do kost people have a wide selection to choose from e.g. enough models for multiple masters/enforcers/henchman combinations of just a handful of things they rotate in and out?

[Ogid]

Answering your original question. Vogel is a model that may work well in several crews, so that one will be probably fine. But I'm not so sure about gunslingers with Kaeris or Rasputina; those are too vulnerable without the support of their keyword (and losing the Grit active all the time also hurt them)

40 minutes ago, Almech said:

When it comes to outfitting a crew before a game, do kost people have a wide selection to choose from e.g. enough models for multiple masters/enforcers/henchman combinations of just a handful of things they rotate in and out?

Depends on the player, some like to have the full faction and make custom crews for each game; other play the same core just rotating a few pieces and there are even people playing only 1 list.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, Almech said:

Thanks for all the advice, it's very much appreciated.

Glad that Vogel isn't just limited to the one crew, so I'll probably just try to mix and match what minis I like first and take it from there.

When it comes to outfitting a crew before a game, do kost people have a wide selection to choose from e.g. enough models for multiple masters/enforcers/henchman combinations of just a handful of things they rotate in and out?

If you want to win, at most skill levels sticking with one crew (with a few flex slots) is the best bet.

If you're really good and can master several crews, it is probably the overall strongest approach. However, that means mastering not only those crews in many scenarios, but against a variety of crews as well. I'm not sure it is possible to play enough to master that many crews. It easily takes at least 20-50 games to get really good with a crew IMO.

[Bort]

Be aware as @thatlatinspeakingguy pointed out it can really grow fast.

Due to budget/time constraints I was not planning to spend on Malifaux.  But then I got given a small Hoffman crew (stater + a few additional models) as a gift. And now I find it hard not to look at other masters/options. Simply because I like trying different mechanics. I absolutely love the constructs... but found that where I started with Hoffman, I quickly started looking at how it plays different when using Versatile models. And from there I started looking at Ramos, Foundry, M&SU etc.   

My point is, this game gives a LOT of playstyle options. And most masters have something that feels unique to them.   

So go for it, start with what you think you want to try. But beware, what you "want to try" will most likely grow quite a bit.