Summoning and LOS

[Gwyliam]

Hey folks!

In our last game, we had a tricky situation regarding the summoning of Ikiryo in my Kirai Crew. The situation was as follows:

Kirai is standing behind a HT2 wall. From the other side of the wall an enemy damages Izamu, who is inside of 6 inches of Kirai. I want to summon Ikiryo in base contact with that enemy, per Malevolence.
So, as usual I have to summon Ikiryo in LOS. And here comes the problem: What exactly do I have to have LOS to? Ikiryo, or the place where I want to summon her?

My take on the rules was that I place the summoned model, so that it is in LOS with Kirai. Since Ikiryo has HT3, I can summon her in base contact with that enemy, because after placing her I can ignore the blocking terrain for LOS purposes, since her HT is bigger than the wall's. So I place her anywhere on the table, as long as the model is in LOS afterwards.

My opponent's take was that I have to see the place, or better said the point on the bottom, where I want to summon her, and THEN place her. In that case it would be impossible to summon Ikiryo, since I cannot see the bottom through a HT2 wall. So his take is: Need LOS to the place, and THEN summon the model.

The rules say "...the summoned model must be placed within LOS to the acting model.", which I believe does fit my interpretation better...

But: Who is right? Can I summon Ikiryo?

Thanks for your help!

[Adran]

Not quite the question

With the errata, a summoned model be placed inline of sight to the summoner. So you don't need to see the point on the table, you need to see the model. 

[Ludvig]

Pretty sure Izamy is ht 3 so would be seen over the wall.

You don't measure LoS to random points at the table in this game as far as I know. You place Ikiryo and see if she fits and Kirai can draw LoS to her in which case you can declare that you are using malevolence and she is summoned in LoS of Kirai. "Summon model X in LoS" means you want LoS to the model, "summon model Y at a point on the table you have LoS to" would mean you measure to a point on the table.

[Artiee]

I think you are talking about Malevolence Ability on Kirai?  That is  "After friendly Living or Undead model within 6 suffers damage for enemy attack. [...]". 

Under this example.  The Wall is Ht2,  and if the friendly model is also ht2 and lower.  Then the ability does not happen because the wall is blocking the aura.

If it was a ht3 model that suffered the damage.  The summon model must be placed in LOS.  Since the Ikiryo is Ht 3.  You can summon her on the other side of a ht2 wall.

 

[Artiee]

Since the only post that are getting upvoted is only stating the Summoning in LOS.    Just want to post.

SRB page 58.  Call out box. Auras Blast & Pulse LoS.  "A model cannot be affected by a an aura or pulse that emanates for a location out of LoS.   [...]".

[Gwyliam]

41 minutes ago, Artiee said:

Since the only post that are getting upvoted is only stating the Summoning in LOS.    Just want to post.

SRB page 58.  Call out box. Auras Blast & Pulse LoS.  "A model cannot be affected by a an aura or pulse that emanates for a location out of LoS.   [...]".

Hey. That was clear to me and I had LOS to Izamu, because the wall was only blocking LOS to the enemy but not to Izamu. 

The question was only about Ikiryo and the enemy. 

 

Edit : but not to sound rude or ungrateful : thank you very much for your answers! 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Gwyliam
Need to be more polite

[Gwyliam]

Thanks all for your replys. That helps a lot. 

So in general you always measure to an object and not to a point. That makes things clear. Thanks. 

[Artiee]

15 minutes ago, Gwyliam said:

Hey. That was clear to me and I had LOS to Izamu, because the wall was only blocking LOS to the enemy but not to Izamu. 

The question was only about Ikiryo and the enemy. 

 

Edit : but not to sound rude or ungrateful : thank you very much for your answers! 

My statement wasn't about Ikiryo being summoned in LOS.  In your example, the model being attacked wasn't in LOS of Kirai aura so the effect to summon Ikiryo would not happen.

 

[Glavinage]

28 minutes ago, Artiee said:

My statement wasn't about Ikiryo being summoned in LOS.  In your example, the model being attacked wasn't in LOS of Kirai aura so the effect to summon Ikiryo would not happen.

 

I think you got confused, in the example Izamu is the friendly undead model that is being attacked, since Izamu is Ht 3, Kirai has LOS for her Aura. So OP would be allowed to summon Ikiryo, also Ht 3, in their example.

[Artiee]

4 minutes ago, Glavinage said:

I think you got confused, in the example Izamu is the friendly undead model that is being attacked, since Izamu is Ht 3, Kirai has LOS for her Aura. So OP would be allowed to summon Ikiryo, also Ht 3, in their example.

Didn't see the named attacked model.   Which is ht 3.    Then take my post as Informational Note that a ht 2 wall will block the Arua LOS to attacked model that is ht 2 or less.

[Gwyliam]

14 minutes ago, Artiee said:

Didn't see the named attacked model.   Which is ht 3.    Then take my post as Informational Note that a ht 2 wall will block the Arua LOS to attacked model that is ht 2 or less.

Thanks for your answer again. But in that special case I described, there was no wall between Izamu and Kirai, so that was never really a thing. But your information is a good one, indeed. The lineup was Roughly as follows, just to clarify the situation. 

 Enemy

---Wall----  Izamu

 Kirai