Bayou Bushwhackers with Manifest Destiny

[Math Mathonwy]

Bayou Bushwhackers are generally considered pretty bad and especially with Mah due to their anti-synergy with both Bushwhackers and Mah wanting to drop cards.

But now that Mah has Manifest Destiny she herself isn't a massive card drain and Manifest Destiny also allows you to use Get Off My Land every turn and allows you to cross the centerline with it. Does that make Bayou Bushwhackers good?

Their main problem is that they have only two AP. But getting an 8" Push is pretty neat. You could think of it as a sort of pseudo Nimble, in a way. Sure, it has to be in a straight line but OTOH it ignores Disengages and is potentially quite a long move that ignores Severe Terrain (because weirdly enough Bushwhackers aren't Unimpeded).

They do have pretty nice stats, Lay of the Land is good stuff and their melee and shooting isn't bad. The Triggers on their Frying Pan are pretty great and their Trusty Rifle ignores cover and has a long range. Damage is sad without Focus, unfortunately.

Playing Possum is again a card discard so one model discarding two cards per turn doesn't sound all that great. And it only lasts until the end of the turn (this is such a huge design flaw with Mah - you discard a card and then the effect ends at the end of the turn rather than until the next activation *sigh*). But I suppose you don't need both Get Off My Land and Possum every turn so I dunno.

Finally, if you take Lil Lass then she wants to drop a card for Get Off My Land as well so is that too much?

But Bushwhackers are cool minis, so there's that! (I wish they had a (0) to Focus - maybe with a TN; heck, maybe Playing Possum could have a TN and with a Trigger provide Focus)

What do you think?

[Dogmantra]

I haven't road tested any of the new upgrades yet, but I am looking forward to giving the Bushwhackers another try with Manifestiny. I've brought them a few times before and they have been decent, perhaps the extra push will be enough.

[daniello_s]

(0)AP with TN to get Focus is all they need. It's not much, really it is not.

[Math Mathonwy]

2 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I haven't road tested any of the new upgrades yet, but I am looking forward to giving the Bushwhackers another try with Manifestiny. I've brought them a few times before and they have been decent, perhaps the extra push will be enough.

I've taken them a couple of times in friendly games and they have always been pretty adequate. They don't suck or anything but of course always when using one, there's a nagging question somewhere in the lizard brain going "what if this had been a Lightning Bug? What if Harry Potter was a cube? How would he hold his wand?" (My lizard brain tends to work on a couple of questions simultaneously).

[daniello_s]

20 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I've taken them a couple of times in friendly games and they have always been pretty adequate. They don't suck or anything but of course always when using one, there's a nagging question somewhere in the lizard brain going "what if this had been a Lightning Bug? What if Harry Potter was a cube? How would he hold his wand?" (My lizard brain tends to work on a couple of questions simultaneously).

You just have an evil twin in your head who is constantly talking to you... Just like myself 

[Nukemouse]

Cant the Gremlin Crier take damage to turn that discard into cycling? If you are taking multiple bushwackers and you have a healer somewhere to heal up the crier. Crier is also melee, so he likes ma's +1 or s.

[Math Mathonwy]

7 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

Cant the Gremlin Crier take damage to turn that discard into cycling? If you are taking multiple bushwackers and you have a healer somewhere to heal up the crier. Crier is also melee, so he likes ma's +1 or s.

Haha, yeah! I actually meant to write about him but forgot. His problem is that the Bushwhacker is likely to be operating on the fringes of the fight while the Crier is likely more central to the scrap but he can still increase card draw for other stuff (like Lil Lass) so should be considered.

[Nukemouse]

Oh okay, i thought the bushwackers would want to be in sort of a bubble so they could take damage, take extra shots when their allies missed and then a slop hauler could heal them up. My lack of gremlin experience is showing.

[lame0]

12 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Haha, yeah! I actually meant to write about him but forgot. His problem is that the Bushwhacker is likely to be operating on the fringes of the fight while the Crier is likely more central to the scrap but he can still increase card draw for other stuff (like Lil Lass) so should be considered.

Tbh I thought for a while bushwackers would use the crier great but since a bunch of the discard is connected to movement it really falls on it's face since the crier bubble is so small and it just doesn't work that well for the stones.

 

. 

[-Loki-]

21 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Their main problem is that they have only two AP. But getting an 8" Push is pretty neat. You could think of it as a sort of pseudo Nimble, in a way. Sure, it has to be in a straight line but OTOH it ignores Disengages and is potentially quite a long move that ignores Severe Terrain (because weirdly enough Bushwhackers aren't Unimpeded).

Another way to look at Boost Their Confidence is a pseudo Drunk and Reckless. They get a free Sh action for 2 wounds. While it requires another Gremlin to fail the shot, really. Your Gremlins will be shooting stuff. And missing. It'll come up more than you expect. With their 14" range, they're not exactly in harms way either.

[Math Mathonwy]

26 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

Another way to look at Boost Their Confidence is a pseudo Drunk and Reckless. They get a free Sh action for 2 wounds. While it requires another Gremlin to fail the shot, really. Your Gremlins will be shooting stuff. And missing. It'll come up more than you expect. With their 14" range, they're not exactly in harms way either.

I suppose so but I've never been very impressed by Bushwhackers' non-Focus shooting and loading up on a Focus hoping for someone else to miss and getting a shot off at the cost of two wounds is a bit stiff. I've done it by Obeying with Zoraida but I wouldn't really recommend it normally. I think that Boost Their Confidence kinda sucks, really, unless you're shooting at something that has a really low defense and no HtW or similar. Or putting the final wound on a HtK model or some such edge case. Because most of the time it's two wounds off of a somewhat fragile 6SS model in order to have a chance to hit and then do one point of damage on the enemy most of the time. It isn't a great trade.

They are better for having the ability than they would be if they didn't have it but it is really quite marginal in actual play in my experience.

[-Loki-]

That depends what you're shooting at. They're Sh 6 and ignore cover, which is pretty high. If you're taking the 2 damage to shoot at something with low Df, you've got a good chance to end up on a straight flip rather than a negative to more likely deal 3 or 4.

[Math Mathonwy]

12 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

That depends what you're shooting at. They're Sh 6 and ignore cover, which is pretty high. If you're taking the 2 damage to shoot at something with low Df, you've got a good chance to end up on a straight flip rather than a negative to more likely deal 3 or 4.

Aye, that's why I noted "really low defense and no HtW or similar" - those are sorta rare, though. Oh, and no Armor +2, either. Outside of Neverborn I can't think of many such models, off hand.

Have you had good experiences using Boost Their Confidence?

[-Loki-]

24 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Aye, that's why I noted "really low defense and no HtW or similar" - those are sorta rare, though. Oh, and no Armor +2, either. Outside of Neverborn I can't think of many such models, off hand.

Have you had good experiences using Boost Their Confidence?

Depends on what you meant by good. I've used it in situations where I haven't minded trading the 2 wounds to finish something off, though I haven't used them a lot.

I won't use it to hit something on full health, but if something is on a few wounds left and I miss a shot? I'll take the 2 wounds for a free shot at taking it off the table.

[wobbly_goggy]

I for one am super excited about getting my hands on Manifest Destiny and giving it a whirl! I love Mah (as I love underdogs in general, and I am aware she doesn't have the best rep), and I think pinging Bushwhackers forward 8" a turn (that's.... quite a lot! That's a Walk Walk of numerous models) may make them great scheme runners.

As far as I can recall, 'get off my land' only states that they can't interact on the first turn if they use it. If I am correct in this, they may make excellent scheme runners, or at least good at guarding your back lines FROM scheme runners.

I tend not to play super aggressively, so for me the triggers on the frying pan and the decent Df/WP are more important than their shooting attack (which IMO is much worse- they aren't shooters)

[Math Mathonwy]

2 hours ago, wobbly_goggy said:

As far as I can recall, 'get off my land' only states that they can't interact on the first turn if they use it. If I am correct in this, they may make excellent scheme runners, or at least good at guarding your back lines FROM scheme runners.

You are correct.

2 hours ago, wobbly_goggy said:

I tend not to play super aggressively, so for me the triggers on the frying pan and the decent Df/WP are more important than their shooting attack (which IMO is much worse- they aren't shooters)

I think that they are meant to be shooters. And they aren't half bad at it when they Focus. Their range is also very respectable. In fact, the only thing making them non-shooters is their weak damage of 1, basically.

[Dogmantra]

3 hours ago, wobbly_goggy said:

As far as I can recall, 'get off my land' only states that they can't interact on the first turn if they use it. If I am correct in this, they may make excellent scheme runners, or at least good at guarding your back lines FROM scheme runners.

I hadn't thought of using them as anti scheme runners. With the push they're really fast even compared with Reckless models, and they're pretty well suited to one on one engagements with mid-low cost models.

[wobbly_goggy]

3 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

You are correct.

I think that they are meant to be shooters. And they aren't half bad at it when they Focus. Their range is also very respectable. In fact, the only thing making them non-shooters is their weak damage of 1, basically.

I get that... personally I'm not that big a fan of Focus. I'd rather have multiple goes and help deplete my opponent's hand (if nothing else) rather than go for one big shot, and possibly fail with that (and opponent possibly only wastes one decent card whilst I use the same two).

 

 

[wobbly_goggy]

3 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I hadn't thought of using them as anti scheme runners. With the push they're really fast even compared with Reckless models, and they're pretty well suited to one on one engagements with mid-low cost models.

Here's a thought - certain schemes (eg Mark for Death) would be easier if you could ping up to 8" to engagement, interact, then smack yourself or your opponent away. In the case of MFD, any direction smacking could really help set up some more damage with another model.

Or ping forward, smack opponent away from scheme marker, interact to discard it.

 

I think there is definitely scope for more shenanigans than just shooting...

[lame0]

On 9/12/2017 at 12:18 PM, aquenaton said:

Do not forget about critical strike! as anti scheme runners, a high  on your hand can mean no schemer anymore, as you can push 8" and then charge.

I hate to rain on the bushwacker's parade but...come on tell me how it's better than pere. Both die easily (pere has one more wound while bushwacker's has higher base stats) but pere has reckless and doesn't make you to discard a card every turn to make him useful. Pere does more damage and can drop two schemes if he has 2 and he trades pretty well.

if you are scheming more why not take meris she has the same survivability, reckless, card filter, and other friendly model blast protection. Also two bayous are also a great choice for the same price tag. 

I dunno I just still have a hard time seeing it work. 

 

[wobbly_goggy]

4 hours ago, lame0 said:

I hate to rain on the bushwacker's parade but...come on tell me how it's better than pere. Both die easily (pere has one more wound while bushwacker's has higher base stats) but pere has reckless and doesn't make you to discard a card every turn to make him useful. Pere does more damage and can drop two schemes if he has 2 and he trades pretty well.

if you are scheming more why not take meris she has the same survivability, reckless, card filter, and other friendly model blast protection. Also two bayous are also a great choice for the same price tag. 

I dunno I just still have a hard time seeing it work. 

 

The point is that a free 8" push is pretty awesome and allows for potential fun...
Don't get that with BGs and Pere.....too easy for the opponent to kill/move around. Bushwhackers have (for gremlins) great Df and WP