What to add to Mei Feng's box?

[Merellin]

I'm here again, Still trying to decide.. Last one, I promise! Just like I have already asked for Ironsides (And Wong, Lucas Mccabe and Collodi) I want to ask for Mei Feng too, If I buy Mei Fengs crewbox, What small box should I add to it?

The reason I keep asking for all the Masters all over the forums is because I am notoriously bad at deciding what to buy and play.. Right now i'm leaning towards Ironsides (Or maybe Collodi because I love the looks of the models in that crewbox, But Ironsides look more fun to play) But I am also intrested in Mei Feng, She seems fun too. So I ask for her too what to add.

[BFOmega]

The best add to Mei's box is likely Ramos's box, as Howard and Joss are great with her, spiders aren't terrible scheme runners, and Ramos himself provides a good complimentary set of skills.

Outside of that, I've heard good things about Sparks and the Mechanical Porkchop, Mech Rider is all around good (plus Mei likes fast constructs). Large Arachnids probably aren't bad either, though can be a bit slow.

[retnab]

What BFOmega said.  Kaeris' box isn't too bad with her either, Fire Gamin are nice mobile Constructs with a Burning inducing ranged attack.  Plus The Firestarter is always a good scheme runner.

[spooky_squirrel]

First thing I added to Mei's crew was the Rail Golem. I then started working out ways to get him more burning earlier, so that he could roll something up while her minions pinned them down. Willie/Miss Fire is also Foundry, so whichever faction you declare for Mei, she can still bring him along when he fits the schemes.

[hydranixx]

2 hours ago, Merellin said:

The reason I keep asking for all the Masters all over the forums is because I am notoriously bad at deciding what to buy and play.. Right now i'm leaning towards Ironsides (Or maybe Collodi because I love the looks of the models in that crewbox, But Ironsides look more fun to play) But I am also intrested in Mei Feng, She seems fun too. So I ask for her too what to add.

The Arcane Effigy is the best 4 stone purchase Mei Feng could ever make, and since you're interested in Collodi and Ironsides, you can use him with both of them as well. 

(I'm not sure how good he is with Ironsides; I assume he's at least a decent pick. I know that many Collodi players love bringing in both the Arcane Effigy and the Brutal Effigy (guild) in particular, so there's definitely multiple options for what he can do for you.)

But for the question at hand, why for Mei? Everything on Arcane Effigy's is perfect for her. Even if you only ever played Mei, I still would recommend the Effigy in 9/10 games. 

- Firstly, he's a cheap, reasonably mobile construct, so he can help her Railwalking.

- Secondly, he adds a buff to her attacks, which is particularly significant because she attacks a lot with her triggers, often upwards of 4 or 5 attacks per activation. He comes stock standard with Accomplice, so you aren't delayed an activation by having him buff her before wanting her to go in swinging.

- Thirdly, the buff he provides happens to be "add Burning or force a discard", per attack, which adds synergy to Mei's Claw attacks as it gets stronger if the opponent has Burning, and other pieces in her crew also work with Burning to one degree or another.

- Fourthly, he can remove conditions that plague Mei or her crew. Mei herself is immune to slow & paralysis automatically (which is extremely underrated), but even so he can help by removing negative conditions like Burning or Poison, or even specialised conditions such as Brilliance or Adversary. 

Other small boxes I could recommend (I presume you aren't looking for other crew boxes, otherwise, as stated, Ramos & Kaeris are perfect pickups) would include Mechanised Porkchop or Rail Golem. They can go with her regardless of whether you play her as an Arcanist or as a Ten Thunder master, and add substantial buffs to her mobility and damage (Mechanised Porkchop) and a tanky fighter that can make good use of all the 's you accumulate (Mei won't usually need them) (Rail Golem).

Mech Rider's good, but you literally wouldn't have any 4s constructs to summon so I can't recommend buying it unless you were happy committing further to the faction. 

Simply by adding the Porkchop & Effigy to Mei's box set, you'd have a very good base to work with. You could easily run that as a 50ss crew and get results. The fact that both models could be used with other masters you're interested in (Wong & Collodi, respectively) is a further reason why I recommend them for you

[spooky_squirrel]

Sparks is also interesting (and a Gremlin Foundry model), since he can turn things into constructs (including opposing models if you're wanting an edge via Kang), make constructs fast, and projects a rather disruptive aura. The Foundry upgrade Hard Worker lets you ignore the free armor you just gave the target (if you aren't already ignoring armor) for the cost of a discarded card. The already mentioned Porkchop works well with Sparks and can drop a scrap marker as it moves, providing scrap to burn for Sparks or a target for Mei to Railwalk to (or both, if Sparks activates after Mei).

Along the lines of free scrap markers to boost Mei's absurd mobility and volume of attacks, the Arcane Emissary with Mei's Conflux can (0) to drop a one-time-use scrap marker for Mei to walk to on a 1+ flip, and if she's within aura 6 of the Emissary making her attacks, she can discard cards to repeat attacks (complete with triggers).

...While carrying an upgrade that lets her heal 1 and draw a card for killing something.

[dancater]

Yeah,

A question when looking at what is good for Mei is... In what context.

I assume as we're in Arcanist forum that you're talking Arcanist build because the TT build options are very different.  

Then while you're talking Arcanist do you say what is great for her AND has later utility in other Arcanist crews (so Arcane Effigy, Arcane Emissary, Mech Rider, maybe Metal Gamin, Rail Golem and also Ramos box [I mean I'd buy Ramos box first 100%]).  

Alternatively some nice models are now available through Foundry to Mei but useless in future Arcanist alternate crews, Kang in her box is an example which is baked in.  So Sparks and the Mech Porkchop are totally legit but they are also unavailable options to other Arcanist masters.

In Arcanist's if I wanted to primary Mei the first purchase I'd make is Ramos box it has superb synergy and gives you a second master the second purchase (or first on a tight budget) is as hydranixx (whose posts this morning I am following in both timing and wisdom) identified the Arcane Effigy which is good in any Arcanist crew, almost essential against certain opponents and particularly useful to Mei.

[hydranixx]

Agreed, Arcane Emissary seems absurd with Mei Feng, and if you were willing to delve deeper into Arcanists, then it becomes even more of a worthwhile investment. I can't comment too much on it though, or on Sparks, as I've had no playtime with either.

Mind you, Merellin does ask in particular for a 'small box', so perhaps that discounts the Emissary/Mech Rider/Rail Golem by virtue of size/cost.

If this is so, the most synergistic choices would probably be Arcane Effigy, Mechanised Porkchop or Sparks, and I'd probably rank them in that order.

Sparks would appear to work best if a source of scrap (Porkchop) is also in the crew to provide for him, whereas Porkchop itself is less dependent on other choices. If you could get both, that's dope, but if you could afford only one, I'd go with Porkchop. He's a standalone contribution: buff Mei's mobility with the Wk6, free scrap marker, and his massive 50mm base for her to teleport onto, and then also buff her attacks by giving her that +flip to attacks for the turn when she charges from him.

Fun fact: Mei's threat range with Porkchop is about 25". (Walk, drop scrap, Walk again, then Railwalk to the far side of the scrap, then Railwalk to the far side of Porkchop, then charge 7" with the 3" Engagement range). Even if he dies before she can activate, you can still use the two scrap markers he drops to get Mei 23" - 24" in one turn while securing a charge. Most people aren't ready for models to cover the same distance as a Pigapult in one turn, and I can assure you, it's fun!

[bertmac]

Willie. Adds some range to her crew also works well with ironsides!

[spooky_squirrel]

With the small box constraint, Effigy, Porkchop, Sparks, and Large Arachnid come to mind. Arcane Effigy and Mechanized Porkchop/Sparks have had some sales pitches already. Effigy (as mentioned) lets you work with Collodi without further ado. Porkchop and Sparks (as mentioned) lets you work with Wong without further ado. They're all utility pieces that let you get more work out of Mei Feng's basic crew box.

What the Large Arachnid brings is Creative Salvage and anti-scheme mechanics (eat their scheme markers, get focus for all attacks). This lets you drop scrap markers when you kill things, use the LSA as a railwalk node, and also eat scheme markers (theirs or yours). The only other non-interact source of scheme marker removal in the Rail Crew is an upgrade on Mei Feng's kick, so if you're wanting to make your opponent work harder you might consider this.

 

Of course, there is one other thing I can think of off the top of my head for Sparks that hasn't been brought up with a Rail Crew box on the table:
Sparks makes target enemy a construct as a (0). Metal Gamin does 2 damage that ignores armor to constructs as a (0) (a Ca 8 effect with an absurd range). Three of them can do 6 damage over the course of a turn. If Sparks is still near them, other models in their crew cannot target the newly-borged model (no heals, no placement, no pushes, nothing). Should they die at some point, they drop a scrap marker, allowing you to do it again in the next turn.

[Merellin]

With small box I meant, Not crew box, Something smaller and cheeper then a crew box as I can only afford to buy one crew box at the same time. Sparks and the Mechanized Porkchop are gremlins so they cost 1 SS extra to hire right?

 

Also, This question might not be best asked in this thread but, What Master would you consider the most fun of Ironsides and Mei Feng?

[retnab]

5 minutes ago, Merellin said:

With small box I meant, Not crew box, Something smaller and cheeper then a crew box as I can only afford to buy one crew box at the same time. Sparks and the Mechanized Porkchop are gremlins so they cost 1 SS extra to hire right?

 

Also, This question might not be best asked in this thread but, What Master would you consider the most fun of Ironsides and Mei Feng?

For point one, nope!  They're not Mercenaries, because they're Foundry models Mei Feng can hire them as if they were her faction.  Point two, that's a really hard choice.  I feel like I play Ironsides better, but Mei Feng flying up the board is really fun to do.

[Merellin]

Ah, I did not know that, Thank you! And while my first Master is Ophelia of Gremlins, I'm thinking I might try to go mostly Arcanists because I want Ironsides and Mei Feng, But also like the looks of Ramos and Marcus and Sandeep.. And Kaeris to a lesser extent.. xD

Thats the problem with this game, I want everything because all the models are so awesome... xD

 

Oh! Why dont I ask this question? Out of Ironsides and Mei Feng, And to a lesser extent Ramos, Marcus and Kaeris, Who plays the most diferent from Ophelia and her crewbox from Gremlins?

[spooky_squirrel]

26 minutes ago, Merellin said:

Also, This question might not be best asked in this thread but, What Master would you consider the most fun of Ironsides and Mei Feng?

 

The answer to that depends entirely on what you consider "fun". I happen to play these two as my first-choice masters because they both fit my definition of fun.

When deciding how to categorize them:

Ironsides: control/support master; will probably die; typically brings an elite crew (higher SS cost models) of M&SU models. The longer she lives, the more your scheme runner(s) can score. She buffs friendly M&SU models around her (but not herself) so long as they can draw LOS to her. If you run her in a less distracting support mode instead of a frontline total control, she tends to live longer and can be used to pull your slower models further up the field to set them up for doing more work than would normally be expected of them. Her box is heavy on control elements (Toni herself, The Captain, Mouse, and the Mages can push/pull with various abilities/triggers).

In competitive environments I like playing denial/control, so for me Ironsides presents the fun of frustrating the schemes of my opponent. When I put her on the table, the end score of the game is usually very low whether I win or lose. The only time there's ever been a high differential between my opponent and I was when my opponent would make a serious mistake (early activation of Lady J leaving her within Toni's You lookin' at me threat range kind of mistake) that would give me an immediate edge on momentum. As I get more practice with her I'm figuring out more pieces of the control game, which makes playing and learning her fun for me.

Mei Feng: ...I don't even know how I would categorize her. I've used her to kill support models and provide a form of denial/distraction while her Foundry armored division slogs up for the strat and scheme runners split off for the schemes. I've also used her as a counter-charge element that Railwalks to her frontline to kick (literally) opposing models off, where she can provide a hard counter for shooting-/casting-heavy crews with Vent Steam. If you're expecting her to kill a lot of things (because she looks like she can when you're reading through the triggers and abilities), you might be a bit disappointed. She goes through chaff models without a problem, but bricks will hold her up and beaters will break her. She can also run schemes for you if you need her to and your opponent isn't putting any effort into killing her (she's good, but not that good).

Mei's absurd mobility and non-linear threat is always fun for me. I tend to be hyper-aggressive with her, even as her crew face-tanks for schemes and strats. The only time I've run into real trouble (that didn't result from my own mistakes) is when armor ignoring is in play. I've successfully used Mei-led crews for denial as well (kill scheme runners, use the Jackhammer Kick's upgrade trigger to blow away scheme markers). I'm looking forward to more monkeying around more with using Sparks and the Mechanical Porkchop, because a proper table will be terrain-dense and with LOS shenanigans that make having the ability to teleport around corners prior to (or immediately after) charging in to gut a scheme runner or key support piece simply amazing.

[hydranixx]

4 hours ago, Merellin said:

Thats the problem with this game, I want everything because all the models are so awesome... xD

That's Malifaux for you. Cheap for the initial investment, but addictive and expensive when you decide to delve deeper i.e to buy a little of everything haha

4 hours ago, Merellin said:

Oh! Why dont I ask this question? Out of Ironsides and Mei Feng, And to a lesser extent Ramos, Marcus and Kaeris, Who plays the most diferent from Ophelia and her crewbox from Gremlins?

One idea you could try is to use Vassal, or borrow another player's Mei/Ironsides crew to play test both before deciding which to buy. 

In my heart of hearts, I'm a Mei player, and I love everything about her. I know you'd have a lot of fun with her. If you were to go with her, as I say, Mei's crew, an Effigy and Mechanised Porkchop are all you'd need to start having a solid base to play with.

However, if you wanted to collect more of the faction but at this stage buy only one crew box, I would recommend Ironsides first.

Her models are simply more accessible in the faction, since Kang (Mei's henchman) is a Ten Thunder pure and you can only use him in Arcanists if Mei is your leader, while The Captain (Ironside's henchman) is very popular for a variety of leaders. 

If you're asking which is the most different from Ophelia, well that's a little tough, but:

2 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

The answer to that depends entirely on what you consider "fun". I happen to play these two as my first-choice masters because they both fit my definition of fun.

They're both fun choices, and they're both different enough from Ophelia that you'll be satisfied with whoever you buy if you're looking for something new. 

[Merellin]

I think I will keep buying new crews and models for as long as my group continues playing (Since it is cheeper then my other game, Warhammer.. Thats expensive..) and I'l probably end up with crews from every faction. But right now, I lean mostly towards Arcanists with many Masters I'm intrested in here at the moment.. Maybe I'l start with Ironsides, And then expand into the faction (Unless another faction distracts me, Then I'l return later.. xD)

Sorry for asking so many questions about masters and crews all over the forum, I just have a realy realy hard time making my mind up, And even if I do make my mind up and for a few days I'm compleately sure that is what I want, Three or four days later I'l be back wondering if that is what I want and maybe I want something else more.. Sometimes I annoy myself with that..

[hydranixx]

I feel that. It's a diverse game with so many appealing elements. It is difficult to narrow down the choices. The more you look, the more flustered you'll get.

If us humble Arcanists in particular look good to you, and as you say, you're interested in Ironsides, Mei Feng, Ramos and Kaeris to varying degrees, the good news is that many of these masters share a similar model pool; Johan, Rail Golem, Gunsmiths, Soulstone Miners etc. They also happen to each share 2 or 3 core synergies of M&SU buffs, Construct interactions and the Burning condition.

When you like a handful of masters that share a model pool, it makes the budget stretch much further.

[dancater]

When considering the fun factor also account for flexibility.

Mei is Arcanist and TT and thus has a range of models and options that Irons cannot match.  An example I had played the Arcanist brawler (Irons) a little recently and was enjoying her a lot (even before the Ox Mage proto buff) but RoF spun me into Mei consideration because I wants, wants, wants to field the Dragon (Shadow Emissary) and guess what Mei TT can rock and roll with the Wyrm.

So 100% support spooky-squirrel and their excellent observations but will also add that Mei is also fun because you could play her multiple times with very, very different crew compositions and still be competitive.  Having said that it is an expensive proposition as you need to buy all those damn models.

If I was buying a single cheap and useful add on for Mei it would absolutely be the Arcane Effigy.  Great for Mei, also happily useful for Ironsides and usable in Collodi as pointed out.   

[dancater]

If you're going Ironsides she is damn solid, her box is very good now with the Ox Mage proto buff as well.  

I can't remember if you had Johan/Johanna mercenary model in your collection but if not then for Irons she is a must buy an amazingly useful piece, even with the +1SS merc tax (which in this case you need to pay) in an Ironsides crew Johan/Johanna feels under priced.

Arcane Effigy is still OK here but less so.

Large Steam Arachnids are excellent. 

Gansmiths have a role, Irons may play them best in the Arcanist faction.

Union Miners are good.

Willie/Miss Fire is excellent.

In the longer run the ever reliable Ramos box is a must (essentially in what does an Arcanist player need threads there should be an auto reply "Ramos Box", its so damn good I'd almost advice a person who owns the Ramos box to buy it ).

[dancater]

So basically of the masters you've identified.  I've placed them in order given that you declared Ironsides as a favorite (otherwise for across faction utility I'd flip Ramos above Irons).

• Ironsides is a good solid master and crew box.  The Captain is a great henchman useful throughout the faction in many crews, the Ox Mages are now a solid viable crew choice and Ironsides, Kaeris and Sandeep in particular all like them.  Value, fun, good across faction.
• Ramos is a top tier master but as a summoner his box needs more purchases (Spiders) in order to be at all viable.  Having said that his box is exceptional value with Joss a superb henchman in 95% of crews and Howard possibly one of the best beaters in the game, Spiders are good and useful in Ironsides crews as well.  Value, fun, good across faction.
• Kaeris is a manuverable adn quite durable master and solid but her box is not ideal to play with her, Fire Gamin are an average take and certainly three is probably too many.  Her box has reasonable total faction value, Firestarter is very good and Ironsides loves him, Fire Gamin less heavily used and no real synergy with Irons and not much with Ramos, but good with Mei.
• Mei is a great fast and come at your sideways master and her box is great for her.  However as noted be aware that her box is more limited in Arcanists, Kang her henchman is TT and Mei only, the Rail Workers are good 5SS models but while Ramos and Kaeris have a place for them Ironsides has better options as they are Foundary but not M&SU.

In the end you slowly find the total collection expanding but even the while Arcanist faction would have less net cost than a good sized army in many games (Warhammer for example) and even the smaller games are usually as or more costly to commit to.   

[Merellin]

Ramos is a Master I originaly considerd heavily on getting (Before I picked Ophelia as my first Master) as he seems cool. I just have a couple of problems, Cost seems higher to get started since he is a summoner, And.. I dont know how to remember what base is what card when I have multiple identical models.. Other then mayhaps painting a number on the base and the card..

 

Oh! One question about Ramos Summon the Swarm, TN is 10 +3(Tome) for each spider he wants to summon, So if you summon one spider it is 13(Tome) Right?

[hydranixx]

1 minute ago, Merellin said:

Ramos is a Master I originaly considerd heavily on getting (Before I picked Ophelia as my first Master) as he seems cool. I just have a couple of problems, Cost seems higher to get started since he is a summoner, And.. I dont know how to remember what base is what card when I have multiple identical models.. Other then mayhaps painting a number on the base and the card..

You don't have to match each base to each card though. When you're spamming models, it would be impossible to keep track of which card is for which mode. Thus: 

If there's a condition on a model, just put a counter next to its model. If you're counting wounds on a model, just put a dice next to its model to show how many wounds are left. 

Easy.

[Merellin]

I supose that is a very smart way to do it. Currently when playing I put the wounds dice next to the card, But if the models dont have many wounds it would be easy to put them next to the model.. I am not that smart sometimes! xD

[spooky_squirrel]

3 minutes ago, Merellin said:

Ramos is a Master I originaly considerd heavily on getting (Before I picked Ophelia as my first Master) as he seems cool. I just have a couple of problems, Cost seems higher to get started since he is a summoner, And.. I dont know how to remember what base is what card when I have multiple identical models.. Other then mayhaps painting a number on the base and the card..

 

One of the best resolutions to this problem that isn't just condition markers and dice I've seen is lettering/numbering built into the paint scheme. Roman numerals, arabic numerals, letters, or any small symbol you can readily paint and reproduce. This is handy if you're doing things like twisting/flipping the cards to keep track of what has already activated. I also like it for when I need to record additional information on the model itself (or don't want to clutter the board with my markers, I put them on the model's card).

 

Otherwise, a handful of relatively small dice can keep track of wounds (also good for summoning Gamin via Mechanical Rider). Just be consistent in counting up/down on the die. For condition markers you can look at fancy tokens in various gaming supply stores (brick&mortar and online), or you can stop by a pet store and get a bag of multicolored pebbles/stones and let your opponent know what each color is (for me: light blue are soulstones, red is burning, green is poison, etc.). If you have counters/tokens from other games, they can also work, so long as your opponent knows what the marker is for.

For the spider factory, all that ends up mattering is wounds and which ones are slow/not allowed to interact due to being freshly summoned.