doubledragon Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Hey guys, I wanna try these guys out with Misaki and have not seen any talk about them on the forums. For 8 point minions they seem pretty good and you get a lot with those 8 soulstones. They're good in melee with ml6 and a positive flip to hit with 2 decent triggers (Coordinated Raid & Critical Strike) and combat finesse. An extremely average ranged attack, but with reposition on a mask. But what makes them especially interesting is their (0) A New Horizon tactical action which for a low tome of 5 and range 6, you can place the marker within 6 of it's current location. This opens some interesting options in game of messing up your opponents schemes and making things like convict labor easier for yourself. Their biggest competitor in this last-blossom soulstone slot are jorogumo, but I dare to say these guys are better. Being difficult to hit, hitting well themselves. Decent amount of wounds and a fantastic charge range giving them a 10" threat range, PLUS scheme marker manipulation. What are your thoughts on these guys? Any in game experience? I'm pretty excited about them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Two strikes against the Wakou Raiders compared to the jorogumo: Not yet released models. Not giant spider centaurs carrying polearms. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valgaav Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 51 minutes ago, solkan said: Two strikes against the Wakou Raiders compared to the jorogumo: Not yet released models. Not giant spider centaurs carrying polearms. If I may offer counterpoints: Based off of actual awesome chinese pirates. Not giant spider centaurs carrying polearms. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_havoc Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 Forums still as insightful as ever. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvokeChaos Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 On 9/20/2016 at 5:43 PM, solkan said: Two strikes against the Wakou Raiders compared to the jorogumo: Not yet released models. Not giant spider centaurs carrying polearms. On 9/20/2016 at 6:36 PM, Valgaav said: If I may offer counterpoints: Based off of actual awesome chinese pirates. Not giant spider centaurs carrying polearms. I can't decide which of those replies I like more, hehe TL;DR I feel they perform two distinct tasks: Wokou is a harrier/utility piece vs Joro being a complete beater. I like the idea of running both of them with Misaki and think Coordinated Raid with Misaki's stalk is RIDICULOUSLY good. In all seriousness, here's my pro vs. con and why I don't compare the two: Bandit vs Oni OFFENSE Threat 10" vs Threat 9" 2/4/5 vs. 3/4/6 Ml 6 vs. Ml 5 Critical Strike vs Crushing Strike Ranged 10 2/3/4 vs. 0 action 2/3/6 that ignores armor and hard to wound DEFENSE Same Df/Wp Same Wd Bulletproof and Finesse vs. HtW and HtK UTILITY Scheme manipulation and pushes vs pushes Coordinated Raid (buddy attacks) vs Entrap (push target into base contact) Ok so there's a lot going on here but by and large there isn't a HUGE difference between them until you dive into the three categories above: Offensively they appear comparable, with Oni having better damage initially, but Wokou being much more accurate in general. Oni can almost guarantee 8 damage on the charge. Wokou can guarantee 4. This is assuming hitting with min damage on both. That's a huge discrepancy. Wokou can get similar damage if you flip rams, but that's too sketchy. It's more a bonus. Plus if you coordinated raid, no critical strike. So all in all, Joro is doing TREMENDOUS damage where Wokou is doing not bad damage. The argument here is that Wokou can go after higher Df targets, but most of those are dangerous threats that are better dealt with by another model. High defense support is where Wokou shine. Survivability isn't even a comparison. Forcing no cheating against Df flips is nothing compared to Hard to Wound with Hard to Kill and Eat Your Fill. I always look at frontline-ish models by how they hold up to min damage 4. There are SO many models that can buff to damage track min 4. So if you're going to be hurling a big nasty in, you got to assume that's the counter punch. Right off the bat, Wokou folds to two min 4, and three min 3. Period. Jorogumo take an extra hit there. The other issue is the Hard to Wound. That almost guarantees min damage on joro, which gives you that 3-4AP investment to shift him. Wokou is strong against melee to force the negative, but anything else it's going down in two solid hits. That's a huge deal in my book. That says, Wokou is NOT front line material. Utility is the same situation but in reverse: no comparison, but Wokou comes out ahead. Pushes out of activation, scheme marker placement on a 0, and the Coordinated Raid trigger just make the Joro look like nothing but a beater... oh wait. Joro's only utility is that he can be summoned with Asami. His 0 action to push is great, but you really don't want to use that unless you HAVE to. That 0 action bite is SO strong. That's why I don't think these are comparable. Wokou Raider is utility harassment with a little bit of defense and some damage when needed, but it's a second wave model at best and an outfield harrier at worst. You are not wanting to just jam this model down your opponent's proverbial throat. You DO want to do that with Joro. Find a target that is Df 5 (or less) and send it straight to oni nom nom land. Now before I end yet another LONG post... Misaki and Wokou. The reason I would run them is really simple... if Wokou doesn't get sniped out first turn or so, then they are Misaki's second wave. A mask trigger to let Misaki take an attack? Imagine you dive Misaki in with Misdirection to tie up the enemy (like I pretty much ALWAYS do). Wokou charges in on her stalk target and gets two mask triggers through... not only did you just put 4-10 damage on that target but you just got Misaki to get attacks on it for free. I can't tell you the number of times I've had Misaki ready to dive in and been like... man, if I could just get ONE more attack... I often charge my non-stalked target to get some damage on them, knowing I have the stalk attack available on 0. Wokou sends these shenanigans to the stratosphere while adding some nice utility and even a bit of ranged threat if needed. All in all a fantastic model to give Misaki. My personal consideration is to run both and see how they perform in tandem. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledragon Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 InvokeChaos, thank you for the really well thought out post. It was a good read and you made a lot of very good points. I agree with you on all of them and I think your last paragraph / point is what I am leaning towards. Quote Now before I end yet another LONG post... Misaki and Wokou. The reason I would run them is really simple... if Wokou doesn't get sniped out first turn or so, then they are Misaki's second wave. A mask trigger to let Misaki take an attack? Imagine you dive Misaki in with Misdirection to tie up the enemy (like I pretty much ALWAYS do). Wokou charges in on her stalk target and gets two mask triggers through... not only did you just put 4-10 damage on that target but you just got Misaki to get attacks on it for free. I can't tell you the number of times I've had Misaki ready to dive in and been like... man, if I could just get ONE more attack... I often charge my non-stalked target to get some damage on them, knowing I have the stalk attack available on 0. Wokou sends these shenanigans to the stratosphere while adding some nice utility and even a bit of ranged threat if needed. All in all a fantastic model to give Misaki. I say that because I wasn't comparing Wokou Raider vs Jorogumo. I was comparing Misaki Wokou Raider vs Misaki Jorogumo. And as you've pointed out, the raider seems to offer Misaki more direct support and boost. It feels as though they are meant to support Misaki in melee, helping her get more hits in, which means more insta kill triggers which means you'll be eating through your opponents hand and soulstones faster. I'm going to give them a try within the next couple of days and I'll report back here as to how they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvokeChaos Posted September 26, 2016 Report Share Posted September 26, 2016 Looking forward to hearing how they perform! They are definitely on my radar And yeah, sorry, I was more just going through my thoughts on the models independently before addressing the one versus the other in regards to Misaki. I get overboard sometimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonkin Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 On 20/09/2016 at 11:36 PM, Valgaav said: If I may offer counterpoints: Based off of actual awesome chinese pirates. Not giant spider centaurs carrying polearms. 3. Easier to transport and play with in game. I LOVE my ninja spider daemons but the wokou raiders look very decent too. D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malmer Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Could Wokou potentially be added in a Shenlong crew, or is it Misaki only, since they are Outcast? I'm starting out in Malifaux and I'm trying to get my head around how these things work, and since it's the Ten Thunders forum. I just think the Wokou minis look great and visually fit the Ten Thunders. Sorry for hijacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 As the rulebook puts it: Quote models hired by a crew must belong to the announced Faction, be specifically allowed by an Ability, or be Mercenary models (which will sell their services to any Crew). Wokou Raiders are outcasts so can be hired by any outcast crew. They are Last Blossom so can be hired by Misaki due to her "Infiltration: Last Blossom" ability. I don't have access to the new book so I can't say for sure if they're mercenaries or not. If they are, as mercenaries up to two can be hired by any master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverousbirth Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Raiders are not Mercenaries unfortunately. Their fluff explains that they will work with Misaki because she hired them but are too temperamental to work with the other 10T masters. They want to get paid and don't care for the Oyabun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malmer Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Aaah yeah, I thought there'd be sneaky workarounds like that Great looking models though. Misaki is definitely in the top of my want list, once I decide to try out a second master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledragon Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I finally tried the Wokou Raiders in a game of Guard The Stash this week with Misaki. My opponent and I were both impressed with how they performed. Their high will power and finesse ability made them capable of holding their own around the stash markers while the rest of the crew went off and did schemes / disruption / killing. My opponent was playing Titania, who drops a lot of scheme markers which she uses against your crew. The ability to push these scheme markers away from your crew was quite handy. And their high Will Power, combined with some lucky flips made them really tough for Titania to throw around. I think these guys will be a staple in my Misaki crews. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvokeChaos Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Awesome, great to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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