So i guess Im playng Pandora- some advice on crew expansion needed

[Anung Un Rama]

A mate won the dayglo Pandora box and so I bought it off him cheap as he already has her crew. I picked up a Teddy and Mr Graves purely because I like the models. So whats a good list to start playing with to learn how Pandora works? What should be my priority purchases next? What upgrades should I take with the crew?

[Pikciwok]

1) Take either Candy or Teddy, Pandora has little room for costly models. Take Sorrows and learn how to use them effectively. Take Poltergeist - it's solid minion and althought it's true that usually you can't go wrong with Primordial Magic, but sometimes Poltergeist is clearly superior choice so it's good to learn how (and when) to use it. 

2) Doppelganger. Iggy. Insidious Madnesses.

3) Depression, A Thousand Faces, Fears Given Form

[asrian]

Things I like with Pandora:

Doppelganger
Insidious Madness
Primordial Magic
Mr Graves (for pushes)

I rarely, if ever, use Poltergeist or Sorrows, but when I do I use only 1 Sorrow typically as they just aren't resilient enough for me for their points.\

[Patzer]

Some upgrade combinations I like:

Voices, Aether Connection, Fugue State/On Wings of Darkness/Fears Given Form.

Fears Given Form, The Box Opens, Aether Connection/Fugue State.

Fugue State is only in if Stake a Claim or Squatter's Rights is around. Its great if you want to shut down interactions.

I am not a fan of Depression since its (0) competes with the outstanding Incite. When I play Voices Pandora I rather focus on Paralyzing one important model then doing something else with the other two AP. Getting the most out of often is followed by getting some mileage out of Incite to get to places. Cry For Me is a bit expensive for what it does, but its different so you might want to play around with it to get a feel for it.

Models I like with Pandora: Doppelganger, Nekima (can create batches of WP duels), Mr Tannen (fantastic in Turf War/Extraction), Beckoner (non randomizing Ca who gains a little extra bite with Misery), Prim Magic, and Mysterious Effigy (provides Pandora with an extra push). Insidious Madness and Sorrows are pretty good too, but I tend to go for the 4ss runners like tots and the Effigy. Kade and Teddy is a solid 1-2 tandem though.

[Elgrun]

Exactly the same miniatures I started with as well.

For me, I'm always not sure on how many Points to spend on Upgrades.

[elder]

Patzer, and why do we need an extra push from effigy?

 

 

[edopersichetti]

Well Doppleganger and Insidious Madnesses are a must! I have also had success with Widow Weaver, I prefer her over Candy, and I like to use Lilitu for her "lure" ability, compared to similarly priced minions that do the same thing (e.g. Beckoners). 

As for lists, I really enjoy playing Sorrows, yes they're fragile but they're really good at what they're meant to do. I field always 2 or even 3, and they never let me down. Obviously, they have a learning curve, they need to be protected and used wisely, but they fit the crew and the theme so much well. I also include 1 or 2 madnesses and then I'm flexible, but a model with lure is always helpful (e.g. Lilitu). I don't care much for scheme runners (e.g. tots) since I only tend to field Pandora in certain strategy/schemes combinations that usually do not require heavy scheme marker placement, and also, Madnesses are excellent scheme runners if need be.

I wish you good luck, I personally love Pandora, she's one of my favorite masters!

[Patzer]

 

Patzer, and why do we need an extra push from effigy?

 

 

 

Against most models it guarantees that Pandy can get away even if she gets hit. Great against charges, etc. Ideally you will just get the push from wining the duel, but it is very nice to have a second layer of defence. Second, if Pandora wins the duel she can push 7". Its even better, she can push 4"+3"! It just covers so much ground and lets Pandora nearly walk twice outside of her activation.

[Ergonomic Cat]

Sticks and Stones has a good episode on Pandora (I am literally listening to it as I type this), and they also recently put out a Budget Neverborn article that has a melee pandora list.  It's basically "Get Insidious Madness and Iggy."  

[Yipikayey]

Just play with what you have until you feel like you know how to play them. When you do:

Dora podcast

http://schemesandstones.podbean.com/e/episode-39-master-spotlight-pandora/

Dora on budget

https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2016/08/21/building-on-a-budget-neverborn/

 

I personally prefer Dora with voices, deppression, nekima, lilitu, dopple, graves, widow weaver and primordial magic. Then upgrades or 2 insidious madness for scheme running, removing lilitu, but honestly i only play dora on Squatters rights or Turf war.

 

[Viagrus]

I've only ever put Depression on Candy. Since she has no (0) actions it's perfect for her, since it allows her to hit her Wail trigger or get the Ram she needs to heal someone up. She also gets Fears Given Form. Have Pandy Incite a model and then have Candy move next to it. The next turn that Incited model is getting Paralyzed. 

Depression can go on Kade to make sure he gets his Sweetbreads trigger off and really put the hurt on something.

Sorrows and Poltergeist are finesse pieces. They are usually best to activate late the turn before you turn Pandy loose on your opponent. They also complement a specific type of playstyle with Pandy. A playstyle most people don't play because it is easily stopped, due to Sorrow's and Poltergeist's fragility.

For Lures, I prefer Lilitu. Her Ca 7 allows you to have a good chance at Luring a master or Henchman. She also has Df 6 so she's a little harder to hit than a Beckoner who's real claim to defense is if the attacking model has Brilliance (a rare occurrence in a Pandy crew).

 

[Yipikayey]

Depression on Dora allows you, on turns when you get the cards for it, to do 2+ paralyzed reliabily. It's pretty amazing, specially if you have a widow weaver to lower that tresshold on how high your cards must be for you to be able to guarantee they are going through. 

Yes, you could use stones for that, but there is no game where i don't use depression on pandora atleast once, making up for its cost.

[Ergonomic Cat]

I played a 30ss game with Pandora (I'm also very new), and I played with 2 Sorrows, Graves and Baby Kade.  I put Fears Given Form on Pandora and Depression on Baby Kade.  Graves and Baby Kade died very quickly.  Then Pandora and the two Sorrows got in to range, and everything just melted down to goo (Including Perdita).

[hydranixx]

4 hours ago, Ergonomic Cat said:

I played a 30ss game with Pandora (I'm also very new), and I played with 2 Sorrows, Graves and Baby Kade.  I put Fears Given Form on Pandora and Depression on Baby Kade.

30ss is a very small game, so it's not surprising that the game swung so much so quickly. It's a decent idea to start small when you're very new, but once you're comfortable with the basics, I recommend ambitiously playing bigger ss totals as soon as you can. 

Depression on Kade seems sketchy. I've found he's almost always the only use for crows in the crew. If you are playing Panda with Voices, then you're keeping ALL the crows and/or giving her Depression specifically to get those triggers. As I usually play him outside of Voices Panda, when I aggressively stone with Wings of Darkness to build my hand, I end up keeping good crows exclusively for Kade, which I find is more than enough to work with. 

If he gets any upgrades, I usually just go for Mimic's Blessing. It makes him quite a pain to deal with before he activates, and if he does get killed he's helping me filter out more cards for Panda.

4 hours ago, Ergonomic Cat said:

Graves and Baby Kade died very quickly.  Then Pandora and the two Sorrows got in to range, and everything just melted down to goo (Including Perdita).

Yeah, Panda + Sorrows is brutal when you time it right. Some games they'll get where they need to be, exactly when they need to be there, and everything around them just dies, while other games they might seem to just disintegrate in the first turn.

There's a bit of finesse require to working with Sorrows, but I think their strengths outweigh their weaknesses once you get a grasp on how to use them. Honestly though I think you're off to a great start to understanding Panda + Sorrows if you're melting Perdita & co (usually very good vs WP tricks) so easily 

[Ergonomic Cat]

We're doing a slow grow league right now, otherwise I'd be at 50ss all the time.

 

[spikes]

Any thoughts on Lust? I recently used her for fun and an alternative to Graves. She can push on a 0, which is a bit more limiting, but all her actions are WP duels. 

[Viagrus]

4 hours ago, spikes said:

Any thoughts on Lust?...

She's more expensive (Merc Tax), her (0) push is only 4", her damage track (weak, moderate) compared to Graves is laughable. 

That's  not saying she's bad, by any stretch. It's that you have to build around her movement shenanigans more so than with Graves. To me she's not a direct trade out for Graves.

In a Pandy crew it helps a great deal to diversify your damage. If you get hard countered against your WP attacks (Von Schill, Marcus, Raspy) you'll be glad for the DF targeting actions in your crew. I'd be more willing to use Burt Jebson in place of Lust for that same reason. Of course those are 3 different models that do one thing similar to each other but do a secondary (or tertiary) thing much differently than the other two.

Lust has her place in a Pandy crew, the same way just about any other model does, it just depends on what you want the crew to do.