Jorogumo Glaive experience wanted!

[qoob]

Hi everyone!

I won't get my hand on Jorogumo for a few more weeks.

I'm in need of players who already have experience using Jorogumo.

I like the model very much and it looks pretty solid for a 9 stone model. The only thing is the Ml 5 Glaive that hasn't conviced me yet. It sounds weak to me...

What is your experience?

Thank you in advance.

[D-solad0r]

 

[Mutter]

Just hand them a glowing saber, it's what I do ...

[Skitt_Happens]

The glaive is generally fine. There's plenty of  available in 10T which make it in most cases as good as Ml6+ anyway. Crushing blow means a narrow hit can be a straight flip, and entrap is a great trigger: pull them in and let the Ml6 bite do the work.

In general, Jorogumo is a minion hunter for me, so the average Ml star has rarely been an issue.

[InvokeChaos]

I had one Jorogumo and two Master AP tie up 7 models worth of activations effectively:

Master and Henchman dropped it to nearly dead. Next round it one shot two minions and ate its fill to full. Master dropped it down again. Shenlong healed it to full. Henchman dropped it down AGAIN. And finally it died to another minion. But the affect on the game for my opponent was devastating. While he was using up all those acrtivations (and losing two models) I was running the rest of my crew.

So no... I'm not really worried about that Ml5, hehe. I actually think it's required. This minion would be FAR too good if it was Ml6. Considering, as skitt_happens pointed out, that we pass out focus on a stick with 10T.

[qoob]

8 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

I had one Jorogumo and two Master AP tie up 7 models worth of activations effectively:

Master and Henchman dropped it to nearly dead. Next round it one shot two minions and ate its fill to full. Master dropped it down again. Shenlong healed it to full. Henchman dropped it down AGAIN. And finally it died to another minion. But the affect on the game for my opponent was devastating. While he was using up all those acrtivations (and losing two models) I was running the rest of my crew.

So no... I'm not really worried about that Ml5, hehe. I actually think it's required. This minion would be FAR too good if it was Ml6. Considering, as skitt_happens pointed out, that we pass out focus on a stick with 10T.

Would you say Jorogumo is more of a tarpitting monster than a melee beater?

[Tokapondora]

Range 3 is great but he only has Ml5 at that and Wd8 isn't gonna allow him to reliably keep it together. Sure a well placed Gumo can prevent some charges for a turn but so can a TTBrother. If you want tarpit beater get Izamu. Gumo is just a beater-beater. 

[Skitt_Happens]

22 minutes ago, Tokapondora said:

Range 3 is great but he only has Ml5 at that and Wd8 isn't gonna allow him to reliably keep it together. Sure a well placed Gumo can prevent some charges for a turn but so can a TTBrother. If you want tarpit beater get Izamu. Gumo is just a beater-beater. 

Really? 8wd, HtK, HtW + Eat Your Fill can't reliably keep it together?

I can think of 2 times in which my Joro has gone down easily: the first was due to a lucky red jokered sniper shot on the first activation of the game; the second time she got a very angry Nekima to the face - there's not much in the game that will stand up to that. Commonly, my opponent throws more and more ap from bigger and bigger models into removing Spidey and more often than not she is still on the board at the end of the game.

I've not used Izamu very much - when I have I have been generally happy with him - but if you've ever found him stood next to a Ronin he doesn't seem so tough anymore. 

[Erorior]

I think that activation-timing really will be the key with our big balls of spidery love. You want to stick them in so that they can soak some damage before killing a weaker model to eat their fill. The can then become a pseudo-tarpit as long as you can feed them a small bug or two at the right time. If you can't get that vital kill however, then the spider soon becomes the prey!  However, a friendly McCabe nearby can greatly enhance their usage, since reactivate is sickeningly effective on these bugs!

[Mutter]

59 minutes ago, Erorior said:

 However, a friendly McCabe nearby can greatly enhance their usage, since reactivate, Promises, Glowing Saber, Elixier of Life, a Strangemetal Shirt or a heal from the WonderWeasel is sickeningly effective on these bugs!

Fixed that for you.

[Tokapondora]

1 hour ago, Skitt_Happens said:

Really? 8wd, HtK, HtW + Eat Your Fill can't reliably keep it together?

I can think of 2 times in which my Joro has gone down easily: the first was due to a lucky red jokered sniper shot on the first activation of the game; the second time she got a very angry Nekima to the face - there's not much in the game that will stand up to that. Commonly, my opponent throws more and more ap from bigger and bigger models into removing Spidey and more often than not she is still on the board at the end of the game.

I've not used Izamu very much - when I have I have been generally happy with him - but if you've ever found him stood next to a Ronin he doesn't seem so tough anymore. 

 

Add in the Ml 5 and no, he's not gonna be as great at that job as his many, many competitors. On the other hand, Izamu has Armor 2, which sure can be ignored but it's still Armor 2, and gets Ml 8 and a + flip on disengaging strikes. You can't hold up Ml 5 to that and go Yep that'll do it.

Yes he can take a hit or two, but 8 wounds means you will be dropped if your opponent wants you down and can do it surprisingly fast. (2 activations will do the trick).

Again, sure he can prevent something funny for a turn but if you want an actual tarpit, Izamu is a much better option. The one danger you might be in is that with Izamu people usually feel it's absolutely useless to even try escaping while with Joro they might wager a chance, but if I'm set on pitting someone in tar I don't want any chance of them escaping. Ever. And with someone (or Izamu) dropping a healbomb or Izamu dropping his Recalled training you can make those 9 wounds last a lifetime. (Still not as good as Yin but hey, who is)

[Erorior]

32 minutes ago, Mutter said:

Fixed that for you.

True indeed! 

[InvokeChaos]

7 hours ago, qoob said:

Would you say Jorogumo is more of a tarpitting monster than a melee beater?

He's not an Izamu or a Yin, by any stretch. Those are my two go-tos for tarpitting. Followed by lower end things like 10T bros. 

But what he is, is a bruiser: a powerful melee minion that is hard to shift. I think that you can treat the Jorogumo the same way you might an off-tank in an MMO:

He's beefy enough to handle minions, maybe certain enforcers or henchman, but he's not designed to tank the boss. Dedicated punishment will put him down. And he's not a tarpit insofar as he is going to keep people from walking away, as his 3" glaive is only Ml5, but his 1" bite is Ml6, so anyone closer has a harder time. But what he does do is demand attention. He has a passive taunt. You HAVE to deal with him, because if you ignore him, he has too much damage potential.

On a strong charge, which isn't hard to get off honestly just need maybe one high ram, you can easily pump out 10+ damage. His wander the earth gives him a 12" non linear threat range as well (barring terrain of course). You cannot ignore that. I had strong cards in hand when I one-shotted two minions, but the threat that posed and the AP it took up made using those strong cards SO worth it. So it's all about timing out when you're going to put that threat out, and soak up some damage, while dishing it out as well.

Personally though, where he really shines is the Master's affects on him. They each provide things that the Joro in particular likes. There are plenty of other models that love these affects too, but I really like them on the Joro. Particularly because he is so hard to shift compared to some of our other minions. HtK, HtW with Eat Your Fill is a LOT of beef (as always, depending on the opposing crew).

Here's my list:

McCabe can give him a sword, nimble, reactivate, armor, regen... all things that are amazing on a high power minion with Hard to Kill and Hard to Wound. Strangemetal Shirt is my go-to choice here as that aura for Armor 1 is great on a melee beater than can fill himself up.  Pop re-activate on that bad boy, give him a shirt and charge the frontlines! Totally my number one option for running Joro with.

Misaki (well anyone really, but I like her for this) loves the Last Blossom trait. I love running Misaki with Yamaziko carrying Smoke and Shadows. Pop the gumo turn 1, I normally have Misaki diving into frontlines end of turn 1, Joro pops up next to her. She's my number 2.

Brewie can obey him and pass out negative flips to your enemy as well as purge your enemies' hand. Holy god that is good for anyone, but a mobile beater like Joro wrecks face in this environment.

Yan Lo wants to just lightning dance things to him, and typically Toshiro is a strong choice in Lo's lists. Toshiro can not only pass fast to the Joro, but can nuke a scheme marker to give all minions focused... something that makes the Joro stupid good. Not to mention Lo likes to ACTUALLY tarpit, rather than pseuo-tarpit. So you can send Yan Lo in to tie stuff up and let the Joro do the heavy lifting.

Shenlong gives him pushes, fast and can provide heals as well as that lovely 0 action to focus. Which despite having competition for 0 actions, is still a great option. Or just bop it with a peasant early on to grant focused.

Asami not only can summon and cruise missile this bad boy (granted on a 13) but she can grant it focused, gives it a 1AP charge and has positioning tricks for delivering tasty morsels to your spidre. I have her down towards the bottom of this list only because I wouldn't hire a Joro with her. And that means that if you have a bad set of hands, he never sees action that game. Which is fine, she has plenty up her sleeve, but puts her towards the bottom.

Mei Fang has her vent steam and can blitz into the enemy with her mobility, with joro pulling up a second wave threat to pull the heat. Not a strong choice here compared to others, but not a bad one either!

Lynch gives you card manipulation and ranged threat to help back him up and ensure you make those bad-ass hits. Weakest choice for me at the moment to run a joro, but that doesn't mean it's bad, just that he doesn't provide any serious support, only sidelong support.

 

 

[qoob]

3 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

He's not an Izamu or a Yin, by any stretch. Those are my two go-tos for tarpitting. Followed by lower end things like 10T bros. 

But what he is, is a bruiser: a powerful melee minion that is hard to shift. I think that you can treat the Jorogumo the same way you might an off-tank in an MMO:

He's beefy enough to handle minions, maybe certain enforcers or henchman, but he's not designed to tank the boss. Dedicated punishment will put him down. And he's not a tarpit insofar as he is going to keep people from walking away, as his 3" glaive is only Ml5, but his 1" bite is Ml6, so anyone closer has a harder time. But what he does do is demand attention. He has a passive taunt. You HAVE to deal with him, because if you ignore him, he has too much damage potential.

On a strong charge, which isn't hard to get off honestly just need maybe one high ram, you can easily pump out 10+ damage. His wander the earth gives him a 12" non linear threat range as well (barring terrain of course). You cannot ignore that. I had strong cards in hand when I one-shotted two minions, but the threat that posed and the AP it took up made using those strong cards SO worth it. So it's all about timing out when you're going to put that threat out, and soak up some damage, while dishing it out as well.

Personally though, where he really shines is the Master's affects on him. They each provide things that the Joro in particular likes. There are plenty of other models that love these affects too, but I really like them on the Joro. Particularly because he is so hard to shift compared to some of our other minions. HtK, HtW with Eat Your Fill is a LOT of beef (as always, depending on the opposing crew).

Here's my list:

McCabe can give him a sword, nimble, reactivate, armor, regen... all things that are amazing on a high power minion with Hard to Kill and Hard to Wound. Strangemetal Shirt is my go-to choice here as that aura for Armor 1 is great on a melee beater than can fill himself up.  Pop re-activate on that bad boy, give him a shirt and charge the frontlines! Totally my number one option for running Joro with.

Misaki (well anyone really, but I like her for this) loves the Last Blossom trait. I love running Misaki with Yamaziko carrying Smoke and Shadows. Pop the gumo turn 1, I normally have Misaki diving into frontlines end of turn 1, Joro pops up next to her. She's my number 2.

Brewie can obey him and pass out negative flips to your enemy as well as purge your enemies' hand. Holy god that is good for anyone, but a mobile beater like Joro wrecks face in this environment.

Yan Lo wants to just lightning dance things to him, and typically Toshiro is a strong choice in Lo's lists. Toshiro can not only pass fast to the Joro, but can nuke a scheme marker to give all minions focused... something that makes the Joro stupid good. Not to mention Lo likes to ACTUALLY tarpit, rather than pseuo-tarpit. So you can send Yan Lo in to tie stuff up and let the Joro do the heavy lifting.

Shenlong gives him pushes, fast and can provide heals as well as that lovely 0 action to focus. Which despite having competition for 0 actions, is still a great option. Or just bop it with a peasant early on to grant focused.

Asami not only can summon and cruise missile this bad boy (granted on a 13) but she can grant it focused, gives it a 1AP charge and has positioning tricks for delivering tasty morsels to your spidre. I have her down towards the bottom of this list only because I wouldn't hire a Joro with her. And that means that if you have a bad set of hands, he never sees action that game. Which is fine, she has plenty up her sleeve, but puts her towards the bottom.

Mei Fang has her vent steam and can blitz into the enemy with her mobility, with joro pulling up a second wave threat to pull the heat. Not a strong choice here compared to others, but not a bad one either!

Lynch gives you card manipulation and ranged threat to help back him up and ensure you make those bad-ass hits. Weakest choice for me at the moment to run a joro, but that doesn't mean it's bad, just that he doesn't provide any serious support, only sidelong support.

 

 

Wow what a summary! Thank you all for your input. You conviced me trying them and I'm sure I'll keep them in the crew

[Definitechoice]

They don't have a rare limit, so it can be fun, though not necessarily competitive, to run lots of Jorogumo and mess with people.  Hunting Party, Public Demonstration, and Occupy Their Turf are all lots of fun with multiple Jorogumo, and maybe Smoke and Shadows. I ran 5 of them with McCabe one round of a tournament recently, and the list did better than it had any right to.

[Mutter]

On 10.8.2016 at 9:31 PM, Definitechoice said:

I ran 5 of them with McCabe one round of a tournament recently, and the list did better than it had any right to.

I'd love some more info on that game ...

The most I've run so far is three - five is just bonkers!

[Definitechoice]

A special prize was offered for the first person to run and win with a list that consisted of a only a single type of model, plus a Master. Other competitors were Misaki with 7 Ronin(won it), and Kirai with 8 Belles. 
Corner, Guard the Stash, Mark for Death, Setup, Exhaust and Take Prisoner. 

McCabe, Badge of Speed, Elixir of Life, Promises
5 Jorogumo
Setup(Nekima) and Mark for Death

Lilith
Primordial Magic
Nekima
Doppleganger
Barbaros
Mr.Graves
Mysterious Effigy(I think)
Convict Labor and Mark for Death

Turns 1 and 2 were walk actions, placing scheme markers near the Stash markers, and dancing around with threat ranges. After that it was piece trading, while I used nimble and Wander the Earth to get a Jorogumo directly in the middle of my scheme marker triangle but within 3" of Nekima after she activated. Triggered Entrap, and scored Setup. Last activation, after drawing a hand where my high card was 6 for the turn, Barbaros pushed a Jorogumo off the Stash marker and off the scheme marker my opponent needed for his final point for Convict Labor. Final score 10-9 Neverborn.

Barbaros scored all of his Mark for Death points with For the Brood. McCabe's pushes, nimble and Wander the Earth combined with their 3" melee allowed me to waste a lot of my opponents AP since he had to move into position to attack with everyone apart from Nekima, and then she wasn't in range to use Black Blood. Ml5 was off-set by Promises, and wasn't much of an issue apart from when I foolishly tried to attack Lilith.  
 

[InvokeChaos]

I'd dial that down to 2 and throw some other stuff in, hehe.

Though that format sounds interesting... hmmmm nothing but torakage?

[Mutter]

That's an awesome format. Did people actually HAVE all those models?

I think I have actually 12 Rotten Belles (was gonna use them for a Blood Bowl Team at some point), but that's more of a freak accident. But six Ronin?

[ArcticPangolin]

On 8/14/2016 at 1:35 AM, Mutter said:

That's an awesome format. Did people actually HAVE all those models?

I think I have actually 12 Rotten Belles (was gonna use them for a Blood Bowl Team at some point), but that's more of a freak accident. But six Ronin?

I love the old metal Ronin and will no doubt get the plastic Viks box down the line. 12 Belles though?!?!?  

[Mutter]

Just now, ArcticPangolin said:

I love the old metal Ronin and will no doubt get the plastic Viks box down the line. 12 Belles though?!?!?  

I got six of the metal ones years ago for that BB team and then bought three of the new plastics off somebody, who threw in another set of three because one had a damaged foot.