Neverborn in Mechanics Only

[WolfDayDream]

So I love Neverborns(get off my lawn ya filthy human! *eats them regardless*) but a few of the Masters strike me as Neverborn in title only and lore wise aren't Neverborn at all and just monsters that are not any other faction for lore reasons but are still inherently inhuman. These are mostly three Masters the others are actual Nephilim or Neverborn(the actual term) to begin with.

Collodi: Collodi is not inherently a monster per se just a homicidal child serial killer. Humanity tortured him into insanity and now he wants revenge he doesn't strike me as wanting to have anything to do with Lilith's goals of humanity eradication and just wants to torture humanity for denying him happiness of entertaining children. (Well he still does but he's been driven mad with isolation and prejudice) He strikes me as an innocent soul that's been pushed over the edge and now is a murdering thing. He is a Neverborn in the sense he's an animated puppet so was never human or 'alive' to begin with but goal wise he's just an entity of hatred and pity.

 

Jacob/Jakob Lynch: He is a Neverborn because he is half possessed that's kinda it. He has no loyalties to Ten Thunders in fact his lore excerpt on his Wyrd page detailing him for players looking into Malifaux describes him as being neutral at best and against at worst to either of his factions. He has an army of soul warped drug addicts and supplies a supernatural soul sapping drug 'Brilliance' but he is also described as trying to break free of Hungering Darkness and get out of Ten Thunders boot. He is probably one of the more honest masters in the entire game. Yes he's a drug dealer, yes he's a card shark, yes he works with the mafia and demons. But  He is described simply as a man whose coruisity drove him to a bad situation and someone who uses his dark powers to break free of his debts and free his soul.

 

The Dreamer: Side note does this psychotic lil 12 year old ever get a name? Okay so Lord Chomby Bits(forget his real name) is a neverborn and total absolute demonic badass who had the bizarre misfortune to be bound to a 12 year old with intense psionic powers possibly rivaling Pandora. But besides the fact he can summon literal nightmares and has absolute dominion over a demon demi god he is nothing more then a child(an evil twisted insane child but a child nonetheless) So unless his parents are secret Nephilim he's nothing more then a demon summoner with a child's fantasy aesthetic to his summons. 

[-Loki-]

Correction - Lord Chompy Bits is Nytmare, a Tyrant, the beings the Neverborn were at war with. Just no one is quite sure if he is, Pandora is suspicious. Is Zoraida classified as a true Neverborn? I thought she was a Witch on Earth and slipped through long before the breach opened.

This is an issue I have with the faction as well, it does feel somewhat disjointed. But again, there's nowhere else for those masters to go, so into Neverborn they are put.

[WolfDayDream]

1 minute ago, -Loki- said:

Correction - Lord Chompy Bits is Nytmare, a Tyrant, the beings the Neverborn were at war with. Just no one is quite sure if he is, Pandora is suspicious.

I knew he was a powerful beastie just forgot his name... Also is it me or all three of these Masters are self serving? Pandora and Zoriada are possible servents to Lilith Lucious I'm betting is a servant to her but these guys are to themselves.

[Vorschlag]

Zoraida is playing her own game all together.
Lilith just wants rid of the humans but will tolerate them on Zoraida's advisement as a usable tool.
Pandora seems to enjoy their company as she "feeds" from their discontentment, their shattered dreams, their misery and woe.
Nytmare refused to answer Pandora as to whether he was a Tyrant however given that the two didn't run into immediate conflict maybe there is something more there.
Collodi is just emotionally broken, after suffering centuries of neglect he was rejected by humanity and snapped.
Jacob Lynch for all intents and purposes  sold his soul to the hungering darkness and its lackeys.
Lucius...well Lucius has his own agendas and we're yet to see who among the Neverborn he is allied with.
 
Factions are fraternities...not everyone gets along, plays nice and works together.

[WolfDayDream]

I not read(love to however) all the lore of the faction but Pandora Lilith Zoraida and Lucius all strike me as the same 'clique' however Lynch Dreamer and Collodi are their own masters and have no desire beyond their own ambitions. (Collodi revenge, Lynch freedom, Dreamer mass mayhem) 

[Munindk]

I tend to look at each faction like there's an overall strategy, but each master is running his own schemes.

[Druso]

Hi!

If you take a look at factions you will see that The Arcanists are one of strongest ones in fluff terms. You have Ramos as their boss and everybody is his tool (Marcus & Raspu are a bit wildcards but they are in the order too). You have Mei to take care of the Rail, Kaeris for blackops and Ironsides for going after rogue mages or people that don´t pay their tax to the MS&U.

Even in Guild, that is a company there a few masters that don´t follow his path (Lucas, Lucius, McMourning...and Hoffman is there because of his brother, and has made dealings with Arcanists in order to save him).

The Neverborn for me organices as that: You have the 3 Queens (Lilith,Zoraida,Pandora) theese are the master who truly control the faction and go more or less united, and then you have the rest of them going for her own interests.

[WolfDayDream]

Just now, Munindk said:

I tend to look at each faction like there's an overall strategy, but each master is running his own schemes.

I think some factions are working together towards a goal (Guild, Arcanist and Ten Thunders for example) but some masters are soloist unless the lore suddunly throws it out there I'm never buying Lynch as loyal to either faction.

15 minutes ago, Vorschlag said:

Zoraida is playing her own game all together.
Lilith just wants rid of the humans but will tolerate them on Zoraida's advisement as a usable tool.
Pandora seems to enjoy their company as she "feeds" from their discontentment, their shattered dreams, their misery and woe.
Nytmare refused to answer Pandora as to whether he was a Tyrant however given that the two didn't run into immediate conflict maybe there is something more there.
Collodi is just emotionally broken, after suffering centuries of neglect he was rejected by humanity and snapped.
Jacob Lynch for all intents and purposes  sold his soul to the hungering darkness and its lackeys.
Lucius...well Lucius has his own agendas and we're yet to see who among the Neverborn he is allied with.
 
Factions are fraternities...not everyone gets along, plays nice and works together.

I see Lucius as probably planning on 'pressing the big red do not press' button and blowing up The Guild politically to smithereens. I also feel each faction save for Res and Outcast as having an inherent goal. Res just want to practice necromancy in unholy peace.. (If they have a goal it's to revive the Graveyard Energy) however Neverborn seem to be disenfranchised. Four are loyal to the goals of total human manipulation while three are just wreaking havoc for their own ends(Nytmare/Dreamer just wanna blow stuff up for no reason) 

And minus Dreamer whose just a homicidal maniac with a pet demon Collodi and Lynch strike me as 'innocent' but broken to become evil. They seem to be the 'goodest' Neerborns if that makes sense. 

[lusciousmccabe]

To be fair the unifying theme of the neverborn is that they were in malifaux before the breach re-opened and that's about it.

Lynch and The Dreamer break the mould, but their tag-team buddies don't. Zoraida and collodi have human origins, but have been hanging around malifaux for longer (same with the nephilim, but different time-scale). Jack Daw could just as easily be Neverborn in that regard, but outcasts suits him as much as anyone in being the random faction.

The real oddball in neverborn is Lucius since he was heavily ret-conned during the edition change. He went from being a ruthless public servant with a shady background to a hammy supervillain literally drinking people's tears. It means you can't really get a lot of information from his older back story like you can with the rest. 

[WolfDayDream]

4 minutes ago, Druso said:

Hi!

If you take a look at factions you will see that The Arcanists are one of strongest ones in fluff terms. You have Ramos as their boss and everybody is his tool (Marcus & Raspu are a bit wildcards but they are in the order too). You have Mei to take care of the Rail, Kaeris for blackops and Ironsides for going after rogue mages or people that don´t pay their tax to the MS&U.

Even in Guild, that is a company there a few masters that don´t follow his path (Lucas, Lucius, McMourning...and Hoffman is there because of his brother, and has made dealings with Arcanists in order to save him).

The Neverborn for me organices as that: You have the 3 Queens (Lilith,Zoraida,Pandora) theese are the master who truly control the faction and go more or less united, and then you have the rest of them going for her own interests.

I admit I only honest to god know the lore from the pages on their box sets. But I'm a huge fan of lore and flavor texts. The Guild are good intention(er.. were) but their too self important and debatable on whose exactly the most 'evil' faction in terms of goals. It's a wonder how they don't notice that four evil factions have inflitrated their ranks(sarcasm) Now I'm not sure on exactly their goals if Zoraida has convinced Lilith not to commit genocide but almost all Neverborn masters seem to be all part of one goal. Lynch Collodi and Dreamer are only ones with no intentions to attack humanity and in fact only attack people for their own ends (Lynch in self defense or for raids, Collodi for revenge self defense, and Dreamer just wanton destruction) I also get the impression that beside Pandora's encounter with Dreamer the Mistresses of Neverborns have little to no knowledge the other three even exist.   

1 minute ago, lusciousmccabe said:

To be fair the unifying theme of the neverborn is that they were in malifaux before the breach re-opened and about it.

Lynch and The Dreamer break the mold, but their tag-team buddies don't. Zoraida and collodi have human origins, but have been hanging around malifaux for longer (same with the nephilim, but different time-scale). Jack Daw could just as easily be Neverborn in that regard, but outcasts suits him as much as anyone in being the random faction.

The real oddball in neverborn is Lucius since he was heavily ret-conned during the edition change. He went from being a ruthless public servant with shady background to a hamtacular supervillain literally drinking people's tears. It means you can't really get a lot of information from his older back story like you can with the rest. 

Zoraida I think been in Malifaux for like a thousand years and Collodi maybe 200 at best.  Dreamer is just a child who astral projects while asleep to Malifaux and god knows how the hell he has a Tyrant as a pet for crying out loud. Also while Lucius's lore has been vague as hell I seem as being a mastermind and seeking to destroy The Guild through subtle machinations that he alone controls. I think he might be a changeling whose madly in love with Lilith and trying to destroy The Guild(the one standing in Lilith's way) s a present.

[Vorschlag]

Rising powers page 170

"In the days of old Malifaux Collodi was a wooden puppet brought to life by ancient magics, its sole purpose was to entertain and delight without thought to its own happiness, which it did faithfully for decades.
When old Malifaux collapsed Collodi was left alone and it without purpose, it did not realize the children it had brought joy to for so many years were not coming back, several years passed. Then Collodi experienced something it had never experienced, it felt.

 

[WolfDayDream]

1 minute ago, Vorschlag said:

Rising powers page 170

"In the days of old Malifaux Collodi was a wooden puppet brought to life by ancient magics, its sole purpose was to entertain and delight without thought to its own happiness, which it did faithfully for decades.
When old Malifaux collapsed Collodi was left alone and it without purpose, it did not realize the children it had brought joy to for so many years were not coming back, several years passed. Then Collodi experienced something it had never experienced, it felt.

 

That's explained in his backstory nothing I don't already know is in that quote. In fact minus a few rewording exactly as his lore from here

[Vorschlag]

14 minutes ago, WolfDayDream said:

Zoraida I think been in Malifaux for like a thousand years and Collodi maybe 200 at best. 

6 minutes ago, Vorschlag said:

Rising powers page 170

"In the days of old Malifaux Collodi was a wooden puppet brought to life by ancient magics, its sole purpose was to entertain and delight without thought to its own happiness, which it did faithfully for decades.
When old Malifaux collapsed Collodi was left alone and it without purpose, it did not realize the children it had brought joy to for so many years were not coming back, several years passed. Then Collodi experienced something it had never experienced, it felt.

 

Quote

That's explained in his backstory nothing I don't already know is in that quote. In fact minus a few rewording exactly as his lore from here

then why did you say 200 at best?

 

[lusciousmccabe]

I think you're reading into things a lot (which is fine) but the impression I get from the old fluff in particular is that the story is more character driven than focusing on faction goals. 

The factions are there (to my eyes) as groupings based on theme and background with goals only featuring quite loosely. So the guild have law enforcement, but their departments aren't particularly cooperative and pretty much all of them have gone off the rails at least one of their stories. There's no one motive force behind any faction (at least not one with a stat card), which is why Lucius is the governor's secretary rather than the governor and Ramos is head of the M&SU, not the arcanists.

Similarly lilth heads up the nephilim subfaction who have clear enough goals, but the other masters don't necessarily care about them.

[WolfDayDream]

4 minutes ago, Vorschlag said:

 

 

That won't reveal to me no matter what I do...

1 minute ago, lusciousmccabe said:

I think you're reading into things a lot (which is fine) but the impression I get from the old fluff in particular is that the story is more character driven than focusing on faction goals. 

The factions are there (to my eyes) as groupings based on theme and background with goals only featuring quite loosely. So the guild have law enforcement, but their departments aren't particularly cooperative and pretty much all of them have gone off the rails at least one of their stories. There's no one motive force behind any faction (at least not one with a stat card), which is why Lucius is the governor's secretary rather than the governor and Ramos is head of the M&SU, not the arcanists.

Similarly lilth heads up the nephilim subfaction who have clear enough goals, but the other masters don't necessarily care about them.

Well hmm I suppose that's true.. I considered buying old books from Half Price but the lore would have been retconned wouldn't it for 2nd edition so.. I wasn't sure buying them for lore alone which I'd enjoy be worth it.. But I'm still convinced that Lucius at least has "blow it up' oriented goals and seeks to have Neverborn swarm Malifaux with Guild destroyed. 

I do agree that Neverborn seems to be one of the only two "goalless" factions. (other being Outcast)

[Vorschlag]

Yes I cant get rid of it, I've tried editing it repeatidly.

It says "why did you say 200 at best?"

[Vorschlag]

2 minutes ago, WolfDayDream said:

I considered buying old books from Half Price but the lore would have been retconned wouldn't it for 2nd edition so

I don't think much of it has been.

[WolfDayDream]

Just now, Vorschlag said:

I don't think much of it has been.

His lore says he was created to entertain children. I expect he was built rather recently before The Collapse and it says he's been alone for 100 years before the Breach opened indefinitely. Also I don't know how long the reopening has existed maybe 10 years? So he's perhaps the youngest (Dreamer and Lynch not withstanding cuz their human) Neverborn.

And hmm thanks maybe I'll buy them..

[Vorschlag]

"First" breach 1787 closed 1797
Reopened 1897.

Your missing the point though, he was a creation of "old Malifaux" old malifaux callapsed a long time before the "First breach".
In Collodi's fluff it states he even visited earth before stating "when humans began settling Malifaux a century ago" so he went to earth before the first breach and was around for Old Malifaux which callapsed due to the war between Tyrants.
 

[Vorschlag]

12 minutes ago, WolfDayDream said:

And hmm thanks maybe I'll buy them..

probably cheap through drive thru rpg but there is also a group that do a radio play reading of the fluff from them the name escapes me. 

[WolfDayDream]

2 minutes ago, Vorschlag said:

"First" breach 1787 closed 1797
Reopened 1897.

Your missing the point though, he was a creation of "old Malifaux" old malifaux callapsed a long time before the "First breach".
In Collodi's fluff it states he even visited earth before stating "when humans began settling Malifaux a century ago" so he went to earth before the first breach and was around for Old Malifaux which callapsed due to the war between Tyrants.
 

Oh still he's probably the youngest non human Neverborn. But thanks for clearing that up.

[Vorschlag]

As for Lucius the only "confirmed" dealings with Neverborn he has had in the fluff have been the mimic assassin things that accompanied him to the ball, Tannen and Graves and a secret meeting with what sounds like a Waldgeist.

[WolfDayDream]

2 minutes ago, Vorschlag said:

As for Lucius the only "confirmed" dealings with Neverborn he has had in the fluff have been the mimic assassin things that accompanied him to the ball, Tannen and Graves and a secret meeting with what sounds like a Waldgeist.

Still he strikes me as a shadow antagonist secretly destroying The Guild from within.

[Vorschlag]

5 minutes ago, WolfDayDream said:

Still he strikes me as a shadow antagonist secretly destroying The Guild from within.

Agreed or simply using it as a tool for his own means.
Just not sure where his allegiance lays apart from that.

It just makes him hard to play as Neverborn if you only like to play fluffy.

 

[WolfDayDream]

3 minutes ago, Vorschlag said:

Agreed or simply using it as a tool for his own means.
Just not sure where his allegiance lays apart from that.

It just makes him hard to play as Neverborn if you only like to play fluffy.

 

I think he's kinda of an oxymoron he's probably a Neverborn loyalist and doesn't give a rats ass about The Guild but mechanically he doesn't do well with Neverborns I don't think?