Leveticus

[ogretyrant]

Hi, I'm new to using Leve , in fact I've only used him in one game. The Wiki describes him reliably killing 1 model a turn? How does he do this? I struggled to kill one model in my last game with him. I'm guessing its along the lines of move into position, shoot figure to take half its health using the upgrade card's trigger (sorry am away from the cards so I cant remember their names) shoot again hoping to get a high damage flip (potentially twice if you started in a good position) all the while giving himself +flips from damaging himself, then sacrifice yourself to summon a Waif to get out of harms way. Is this viable? Or is he more along the lines of weakening the opponent for a shot from Rusty or charging to do massive mele damage? Any help for me to understand him is appreciated, thanks!

[psychogeek]

Levy has some of the highest damage output due to his ability to get s. I have had ridiculously unlucky games where I killed nothing and steamroller games where he killed anything he blinked at. You take the damage to the gain  on his attacks then sac to create a waif. The reason those s are so good is it allows you to cheat against a lot of things most people can't. He also ignores most defense so Levy is quite scary. Sometimes he is a one-man apocalypse and sometimes you do need to use other crew pieces to soften something up. 

It sounds like you have the basics behind him. Just keep playing him and learn his tricks

[Adran]

Typically its fairly easy to get Leveticus in a position that he can attack 3 times for his AP (thanks to his unburying next to waifs). and If he channels all the attacks he should be easily able to do 9-12 points of damage (with his positive to attack and damage you will almost always be able to cheat the damage flip), ignoring most protections. there are only a few models in  the game that won't die to that sort of consistant damage. 

The Half damage trigger isn't needed, but it does bring every model out there into range of 3 AP from death. 

[Spindle]

My experience is that you should ALWAYS be channeling for those  flips on attack. Almost every game I've played my opponent has (quite rightly) ignored Leveticus and just gunned for his waifs so the only source of damage I took was from my channeling. I'm fairly sure it's also legal to also focus for a  for tough or tricksy targets but I've not felt that this has ever been necessary, Especially with Levi's face of Death trigger (discard 3 cards to gain  to the damage flip) on his melee, and his ridiculous 7 Ca on his Unmaking ranged attack. 

I had mixed feelings about him at first after a terrible game vs Gremlins, but after I learnt how to position him correctly he was a devastatingly killy powerhouse. In one particular game he was living up to his 1-model a turn kill count and actually bagged two models in the same activation due to good positioning.

[ogretyrant]

Thanks for all the tips peeps, have another game with him tomorrow 50ss my list is Leveticus, 2 x Waifs, Rusty, Ashes & Dust Trapper and 3 x Abominations. We'll see how well do this time!

[KrazyIvan]

The basic process is move a waif into attack position for Levi, unbury Levi at the end of the turn, activate him first, channel all attacks and focus down on a single model, bury and summon at the end of the turn. Three channeled shot from Levi should be able to eliminate all but the highest wound models. For those higher wound models charge instead. Having on attacks during a charge will almost guarantee 8 damage per attack, even if you have to cheat in severe, unless you flip a black joker. That will eliminate pretty much anything except for masters with activation ending or movement based defensive triggers or models that can stone for damage prevention.

I almost never take To the Earth Return because I rarely run into a situation where I absolutely need it. If a model has a ton of wounds I just charge it instead. I find Desolate Soul and Tally Sheet much more productive options. I usually skip taking a third upgrade unless I am running Pariah of Iron or Pariah of Bone.

[ogretyrant]

Leve was a beatstick in my last game, he either killed or maimed everything around him. I teamed him up with Ashes & Dust (which I was using for the first time) and the pair was unstoppable! Mixed with a mid game summoning of a Desolate Engine it was all she wrote for my opponent! 

[Tris]

One quick question which fits in this thread so that I don`t have to open up another one:

it is clarified that Leveticus can channel a charge action and gets the positives to all duel regarding the charge and also to both attacks.

Am I allowed to also channel the following attacks seperatley?

(there is a bit of confusion about that right now in my local group, because channel says "When declaring an action...." and we are not sure if you get to declare the following melee actions or just take them)

 

Thank you in advance and kind regards

[DXXXVIII]

I suppose. Each time you declare an action. So yes... channeling a charge and then channeling each of the attacks gives you ++ on the attack and damage.

Sounds a bit broken and ridiculous... but thats Levi ;D

[Dogmantra]

Declaring is an inherent part of taking any action, I also read a difference between declaring and taking, but there mechanically isn't one, so yup, you can channel each attack separately.

[KrazyIvan]

9 hours ago, Tris said:

One quick question which fits in this thread so that I don`t have to open up another one:

it is clarified that Leveticus can channel a charge action and gets the positives to all duel regarding the charge and also to both attacks.

Am I allowed to also channel the following attacks seperatley?

(there is a bit of confusion about that right now in my local group, because channel says "When declaring an action...." and we are not sure if you get to declare the following melee actions or just take them)

 

Thank you in advance and kind regards

Indeed he can. The attacks within a charge are part of the charge action, so benefit from the initial Channel, but are also separate actions, and thus can be Channeled as well. You can start with on each attack. It's the same way a Charge action might not be affected by Auras (like some stuff Brewmaster can do) but the attacks can be affected after the Charge move because they were initiated from within the Aura. Assuming no Black Joker pops up is it remarkably easy to take down even the most resilient models on a Charge(like Toshiro and his double negative damage flip defenses).
 

You can find the two clarifications that enable  Charge attacks in the FAQ (look for the the FAQ about Levi's Channel and Brewie's Aura).

[Dassenkop]

No card handy but I'm a bit confused by the . I understand that you can channel the charge and then channel again for each attack resulting from the charge ... so its 

 

[LulleK]

1 hour ago, Dassenkop said:

No card handy but I'm a bit confused by the . I understand that you can channel the charge and then channel again for each attack resulting from the charge ... so its 

 

The melee attack has a trigger which let you discard cards to get plus flips. Though I think it's only 3 plusses (when you flip 4 cards). Also I don't think you are alowed to channel both the charge and each attack in it, because it's still one action. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[Dassenkop]

19 minutes ago, LulleK said:

The melee attack has a trigger which let you discard cards to get plus flips. Though I think it's only 3 plusses (when you flip 4 cards). Also I don't think you are alowed to channel both the charge and each attack in it, because it's still one action. Correct me if I'm wrong!

Yes, that would make more sense to me.

Reading the earlier comments I'm not sure that is how it should/can be played though hence the question. 

[Adran]

1 hour ago, LulleK said:

The melee attack has a trigger which let you discard cards to get plus flips. Though I think it's only 3 plusses (when you flip 4 cards). Also I don't think you are alowed to channel both the charge and each attack in it, because it's still one action. Correct me if I'm wrong!

You are right that you can't get above  but you can channel the charge, and the resulting attacks from the charge. 

9) Q: If Leveticus uses his Channel Ability at the start of a Charge Action, will he gain the bonus for all Attacks generated during the Charge?
A: Yes. Channel is worded differently than Focus in that it specifies it applies to all duels for the remainder of the Action, so he would gain the bonus to all Attacks during the Charge, as well as any other duels, such as Horror Duels. (9/1/15)

There is no reason why he can't channel the charge, and then Channel each attack generated by the charge. 

Should he ever get onslaught, then he could triple channel the Onslaught attack. (Channel the charge. Channel the attack. and then channel the bonus attack from the (imaginary) onslaught trigger to give him the   because the 2 previous channelled actions haven't finished yet. 

 

 

[LulleK]

9 hours ago, Adran said:

You are right that you can't get above  but you can channel the charge, and the resulting attacks from the charge. 

9) Q: If Leveticus uses his Channel Ability at the start of a Charge Action, will he gain the bonus for all Attacks generated during the Charge?
A: Yes. Channel is worded differently than Focus in that it specifies it applies to all duels for the remainder of the Action, so he would gain the bonus to all Attacks during the Charge, as well as any other duels, such as Horror Duels. (9/1/15)

There is no reason why he can't channel the charge, and then Channel each attack generated by the charge. 

Should he ever get onslaught, then he could triple channel the Onslaught attack. (Channel the charge. Channel the attack. and then channel the bonus attack from the (imaginary) onslaught trigger to give him the   because the 2 previous channelled actions haven't finished yet. 

 

 

That FAQ only refers to the fact that one channel before the charge affects both attacks. Not that you can channel each attack again.

[Dogmantra]

Just now, LulleK said:

That FAQ only refers to the fact that one channel before the charge affects both attacks. Not that you can channel each attack again.

Yes, but the rulebook states that the first step of taking an action is to declare it, thus you declare each individual attack, and have the opportunity to channel that attack too.

[LulleK]

9 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Yes, but the rulebook states that the first step of taking an action is to declare it, thus you declare each individual attack, and have the opportunity to channel that attack too.

Okay, that's awesome if it works that way

[KrazyIvan]

14 hours ago, LulleK said:

Okay, that's awesome if it works that way

That is indeed how it works, and he can use the trigger on top of it. The initial Channel applies to all duels in the Charge, including both attacks because they are part of the Charge action. A Charge follows this sequence: Declare Charge, Charge move, Attack action, Attack action, end Charge. Those attacks are part of the charge, but also actions that have to be declared and thus can be Channeled. I to thought that was stupid broken as first and not as intended, as it makes his trigger somewhat edge case, but after several long discussions about the FAQ here and on AWP I've been convinced.

[LulleK]

14 hours ago, KrazyIvan said:

That is indeed how it works, and he can use the trigger on top of it. The initial Channel applies to all duels in the Charge, including both attacks because they are part of the Charge action. A Charge follows this sequence: Declare Charge, Charge move, Attack action, Attack action, end Charge. Those attacks are part of the charge, but also actions that have to be declared and thus can be Channeled. I to thought that was stupid broken as first and not as intended, as it makes his trigger somewhat edge case, but after several long discussions about the FAQ here and on AWP I've been convinced.

Cool

[Dassenkop]

Okay but after checking the rulebook ... Charge says you take a 1 ap melee action not that you declare it while channel only works if you declare an action and spend ap (see the resolving actions bid in the rulebook) as i read it. So still a bid confused.

[Kadeton]

49 minutes ago, Dassenkop said:

Okay but after checking the rulebook ... Charge says you take a 1 ap melee action not that you declare it while channel only works if you declare an action and spend ap (see the resolving actions bid in the rulebook) as i read it. So still a bid confused.

When you take an Action, you follow the steps on page 37 (BRB). Step 1 is to declare the Action that you're taking.

When Levy takes the Charge action, he declares it and can use Channel to gain the bonus for the whole Action. As part of the Action, he takes two Close Attack actions, each of which must also be declared, and can benefit from an additional use of Channel.

[Jokerboy]

I guess the best way to show that "take" and "declare" (especially for Levi) mean the same thing, is the Focus condition. The Focus conditions says "before declaring an action...." (you know the rest). That would mean that you could not use Focus for any Attack from a Charge if you are not declaring these two generated Actions.

[Dassenkop]

That makes sense Shen Long ... the reading 'take' as 'declare' part. I'll also check on the Focus, I'm pretty sure there will be questions from the players in my (small) group.