Struggling Colette player

[Sausten]

Hi all I only just started playing Malifaux in December and for my first crew chose Colette. I am however struggling with getting a grip on her tactics. Anyone got any sagely advice for me on what I should aim to do with her?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[bertmac]

If you look further down the page there are a couple of posts regarding her crew and how people like to play her.

 

There is the Collette crew, what do people hire?

As well as a link to schemes and stones podcast about her.

[LeperColony]

Also, it may be helpful it you explained in a little more detail what your difficulties are. 

Are you getting tabled really early?  Are you having problems running schemes?  Etc.

More information on your crew(s), your opponent(s) and your meta would be useful too.

In Malifaux there are not only a lot of different Masters, but most of the Masters can be played in several different ways.  Someone like Colette can accommodate many play styles.  But if you gave us a little more on the kinds of things that typically appeal to you (elite beat sticks, gun lines, particular themes, etc) it might also turn out that there may be a more fitting Master for you. 

[MR TORGUE]

Yeah Leper is right; Colette can accommodate a vast amount of play styles and crew builds; but i think right out of the box her crew is a bit pants and extremely fragile and thus a huge learning curve for a new malifaux player (or experienced i suppose). 

One of my friends had her from first edition and was spitting venom when trying to use her in M2E - He refuses to move out of the showgirl theme and recruit other Arcanist models which i think is partly his problem as Colette takes things like December acolytes/Joss/Envy and just exploits the hell out of them to her advantage.  If you are worried about theme however I always think of it as a massive Las Vegas show with exhibitions of the weird and wonderful; "Introducing the giant vipers of the wilds!" for things like razorspine rattlers and so forth. 

[LeperColony]

I can sympathize with your friend.  I am mostly a Showgirls only player on Colette, and a lot of match ups are rough.  I keep hoping for an Annie Oakley type Showgirl.  Maybe one day...

[Sausten]

I've had a few games now where I've been tabled. I'm running mostly a showgirl crew with Howard sometimes but the two times I've been tabled is when I've run with Howard. Her vanilla crew strikes me a very expensive for how fragile they are, I get that performers and mannequins can be a pain used correctly but for a combined 9SS they can be killed in an instant and once they go Colette is at a huge disadvantage.

 

[LeperColony]

You have to be careful about Prompting your Hitters to death.  It's very easy to do.  But most players know that since Colette is primarily support, and that killing her is a pain, eliminating the one or two threats in the crew is a high priority.  if you're running Howard and Cass, then the rest Showgirls, you have to balance committing either one of your threats to fight against what you can gain in VPs, either by their direct actions or in the amount of AP you can get the enemy to expend on them.  You could try changing the dynamic by replacing Howard and some change with two Coryphee. 

One option also is to replace dangerous models like Howard with some longer term options.  The Mech Rider is sort of the standard, but I've been Mathifauxing a Rail Golem/Burning crew.  You could also go ranged instead.  A gun line with Colette behind can put out a lot of shots.  These builds have the advantage of trying to delay, which Colette, with her movement powers and strong defense, is good at. 

It's also possible that your crew is just too fragile.  You may want to consider some tanking options.  I'm waiting for the Arcane Emissary to come in plastic, because I definitely intend to add him to my Colette tool box.  Or, if conditions are destroying you, there's always the ever-popular Johan (if you absolutely HAVE to run all girls, you can always try to get the L.E. Johana).

But it would also help to know why it is you want to play Colette.  If your reasons are thematic or artistic, there's not really any substitution.  But if you like her for other reasons, it could be another master is more suited to your play style.

And, any information on your opponents and your meta would improve our ability to give advice.  For instance, I don't really like Oiran much, but if I know it's going to be WP duels all day, I very well may consider one.  Likewise, if I am building a Showgirl light crew, the Ice Dancer becomes more attractive (though I still don't like her that much) for spitting out more Scheme Markers. 

[Sordid Strumpet]

The main problem with Colette is that there is an absolute bucketload of things to keep track of if you want to get the most out of her - scheme marker placement, repositioning, preventing charges, making stones, drawing cards summoning doves, using doves, planning several turns ahead to make sure things are where they need to be, who best to prompt, making sure not to leave key pieces unsupported and so on.

That's a monumental task if you're also learning how to play the basic game, and will be very frustrating for a while. 

If you absolutely have to stick to Colette, I would suggest the following: pick one of her abilities and ignore all others. Focus on that. I would pick prompt, as it's easily the most universally applicable. 

Take two things to prompt - a hitter like Joss, Langston, Johan, the Captain or something like that and a december acolyte. 

Then focus on figuring out whether to prompt the ranged guy (acolyte) or the melee beater (Joss) till you can keep them in range and in position in your sleep. The other thing you can do at the same time is to mechanically learn to 0-action place scheme markers with minions and showgirls every time they activate. Colette needs at least two or three near her at all times, and a few down field in line if sight as well.

The other option is to only play box-games. Forget about winning, just focus on working out how to accomplish one scheme at a time, regardless of what your opponent does. Write up your experience and the mistakes you made. Writing helps you process your thoughts in a way that nothing else can.

Look at the cards for a neat trick. Like the repositioning shenanigans. Think about how to pull it off. Write down how you'll do it. Then do it exactly that way in a game. Then go back after the game and see if your plan was good.

[Sobek]

If you can, I found that the best way to actually get proficient with Showgirls is to actually run them in a campaign. You learn to use all their scheme shenanigans rather proficiently without Colette until later in the campaign; it's great practice for all of their abilities. If you focus on practicing with their scheme management/control abilities, this tends to be the key to running the crew successfully. Colette just helps them do what they normally do better. 

[edopersichetti]

On 1/6/2016 at 7:47 AM, Sobek said:

If you can, I found that the best way to actually get proficient with Showgirls is to actually run them in a campaign. You learn to use all their scheme shenanigans rather proficiently without Colette until later in the campaign; it's great practice for all of their abilities. If you focus on practicing with their scheme management/control abilities, this tends to be the key to running the crew successfully. Colette just helps them do what they normally do better. 

I was going to say, Colette is a very difficult box to begin with. I've seen a player friend struggle similarly because he started with the Brewmaster (!!). I get it that new players want to start with whoever appeals them, usually from a visual/theme point of view, but they should be advised about the difficulty of some crew boxes...I loved Gremlins and chose Ophelia, who I found perfect for the task, but had I started with Brewmaster, I don't know if I'd still be playing Malifaux now!

That being said, the advice is sound, I think starting in a campaign, perhaps with a henchman-only first couple of battles, is a really good idea! In my slow grow league, we start at 30SS with only henchman, so you get like Cass, a couple of performers and a mannequin, perhaps a coryphee...it's a nice basis to begin with!

[Mxbedlam]

Best tips for general colette play: 

1) always remember showgirls (0) action interact

2) Always keep a scheme marker within 2" of her

3) Try not to overextend you big hitters

4) Never forget to Southern Hospitality on Cassandra. Also, you can SH with her and then get out of melee thanks to the -Flip

5) She does nothing if she has no friendly models left.

[spooky_squirrel]

Colette's box crew runs marker schemes and shenanigans really really well; nearly automatic full points on schemes like Set Up and Detonate the Charges, discarding opponent's scheme markers, and scheme marker-based debuffs come to mind immediately. That's a lot to juggle, without even getting into the prompt/understudy/prompt tier of "who is doing what now?!" As others have said, practice with specific abilities and models until you don't have to remind yourself of what they do and how they do it. Once you understand the individual gears, then you can start figuring out their sequencing.

A well-sequenced Colette crew is very hard to deal with. Some things to keep in mind as you're adding in Cassandra and Colette herself is that a Performer dying near them gives them a whole second activation. That's another round of Cassy nimble walking into the middle of a mess and slashing things. Another round of Colette triple-prompting her crew. If they haven't activated yet and the acting model isn't ruthless, they can be costly to focus on.

If you're wanting a bit more out of the base box, look at things that will use those scheme markers or otherwise enhance your favorite pieces of the pie. People who love prompt build Colette crews that feature a lot of high value enforcers getting prompted to the point of absurdity. As was already mentioned: watch out for Final Act on the prompting. If you're piece-trading, make sure it's a worthwhile trade. Without her crew, Colette's Prompt does nothing for her.

I'm a fan of the mobility and scheme tricks, and have had games that came down to the final activation in turn 5 to figure out the game-winning point. So that leans me toward things that will enhance that approach. To work around the fragility of the core Colette box, I would swap out one Performer/Mannequin pairing for something that works close to what you think you want to do. That's 9SS towards hiring Envy, a dancing bear, a Coryphee, Large Arachnid, Angelica, (more) initial doves, a Scorpius etc. to do some work, enhance your crew, work off of scheme markers, apply poison, etc.

[dancater]

On 1/5/2016 at 4:44 AM, Sausten said:

Hi all I only just started playing Malifaux in December and for my first crew chose Colette. I am however struggling with getting a grip on her tactics. Anyone got any sagely advice for me on what I should aim to do with her?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Schemes & Stones does a tactics and crew selection podcast on Colette which is excellent.

Pullmyfinger has some nuggets of sage advice.

There is a pinned Colette thread in this forum which while long has much good advice.

Basically Colette is a force multiplying scheme-y master that is hard to kill because she is slippery as all hell but she and her crew struggle with the simple style knock down mid table brawls.  She is probably regarded as such a difficult master and crew to play because, particularly as a first master she emphasizes the aspects of Malifaux which are most unlike other war games, namely the scheme/strat aspect, this is a crew which does not need to kill to win and can still win even if wiped out.  For a more 'traditional' mini wargamer she feels counter intuitive at first.

She and her crew do scheme markers as well as any other crew.

She force multiplies several exceptional Arcanist beaters really well, I'd always table any two of... the Coryphee Duet (note you'll initially field each Coryphee separately and then combine them, I'm counting the Duet as one of the two here), Cassandra (in her crew box), Howard Langston, Joss and Mech Rider.  She also likes The Captain and the Rail Golem, even some of the beast beaters like the Cerebus work.

Always, always, always keep her near some scheme markers and perhaps a Performer or other 5+SS Showgirl (Ice Dancer and Orian), she needs them to stay alive as her wounds total is low and she relies on the trigger (so also always keep one soul stone saved at least for this trigger, she needs a soul stone to cycle once/turn) shenanigans to live.  I mean late game you can afford to lose her in a positive exchange but turns 1-3 she needs her safety schemes around her.

Several mid range models are great with her and in particular the outside pure theme Frozen Heart models the Silent Ones (who can heal) and December Acolytes are first class.

Everyone loves the Arcane Effigy.

Play a game (or three) against a friend where you have non-kill schemes and strats and you expressly cannot reduce any model below 1 wound (instead a 'kill' results in either Slow or Paralyze debuff, either works).  Force yourself (and your friend depending what crew they take) to practice the non-killing tracks and game winning requirements of Malifaux, it will let you really focus on the thing Colette and crew do really well.