FertileSpade Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Curious how everyone uses Raptors? I understand the broad strategic use to harry your opponents' backfield models that they would prefer to operate unmolested, but I'm interested in specifics: tips/tricks, tactics etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angyi Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) In addition to what has been said, the raptor is the perfect Killjoy delivery piece, because of the Take to the Sky ability and its medium base, so you can place Killjoy out of melee for the 1AP charge.They make good Defend Me companions for Marcus too, because they are fast enough to follow him anywhere. If you can give them for damage flips (you can), they can be surprisingly hitty for a 3SS model...Also you can try them with Angelica or Cassandra + the Practiced Performance upgrade, and place your scheme markers wherever you wish. Edited September 25, 2015 by angyi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Practised production or Wings of Fire make them surprisingly good for scheme marker placement. Take to the skies can be amazing in Interference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippodruid Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I don't understand where this interaction with Killjoy comes in. Killjoy is only unburied if a model is killed or sacrificed. Raptors just bury themselves.Raptors also give decent activation and charge lane control. They're cheap, have a wide base, and tend to require a couple of AP to remove (if you place them in melee with Howard Langston, Killjoy, or Lady Justice, well...I hope it was all part of the plan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I don't understand where this interaction with Killjoy comes in. Killjoy is only unburied if a model is killed or sacrificed. Raptors just bury themselves.If you put them into the middle of the enemy crew, they do get killed (or else are super annoying). And since they have a big base, you can Unbury Killjoy in such a way as to be able to Charge a lot of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angyi Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) I don't understand where this interaction with Killjoy comes in. Killjoy is only unburied if a model is killed or sacrificed. Raptors just bury themselves.Of course they do. So you can place them anywhere on the board, and- shoot them in the back to pop KJ, or- place them somewhere completely blocking your opponent's movement, then he will or he will not kill the raptor, good for you.And the 40mm base really helps, not mentioning the 3SS cost.Edit: yes, basically just what Math Mathonwy said Edited September 25, 2015 by angyi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippodruid Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 That's reasonable. I've seen the opinion before, and it seems to say that there is some specific interaction when in fact you're just relying on your opponent to kill your hapless bird, which can be sorely tempting if you manage to get a Rake the Eyes or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Practised production or Wings of Fire make them surprisingly good for scheme marker placement. Take to the skies can be amazing in Interference. This. Kaeris, and crews with Showgirls make amazing use of them.Also keep in mind that as they're peons they can't give your opponent points in Head Hunter or Collect the Bounty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoS Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Well you said everything about this birds. I'll only have to say they are great to place Myranda wherever you want with her upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FertileSpade Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 sweet! several good ideas, thanks much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FertileSpade Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I tried the Raptor/Killjoy trick and my opponent saw it coming a mile away. I was running a Marcus beast list so had no way to shoot the raptor myself. My opponent was running Zorieda and simply repulsed and obeyed the raptor. In addition the strat was recon so the raptor being a peon didn't help achieve VP's. I ended up bringing Killjoy in when I sacrificed Myranda and brought in a Slate Ridge Mauler as well.I still see potential for the raptor and plan on trying the tricks with Collette and Kaeris next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdparker Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) I would have said that if the opponent saw the combo... the raptor still (and almost always does) had a place in the list, and you were more than likely to bring in KJ either through some other cheap non-peon (Recon screams Night Terrors) or through a Myranda shapechange. Either way, you're getting the guy out, though the opponent might have been savvy enough to mitigate a (small amount) of damage. Edited September 30, 2015 by brdparker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angyi Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Well in reconnoiter it's not optimal to field a couple of peons with 13SS already buried You also have alternative ways to force an unwilling opponent to help you pop out Killjoy on the right spot, eg. Defend Me or Alpha with Marcus, just to name a few.You're right the combo is pretty straight forward and therefore predictable, and surely it's not worth to push it at any cost. Still it can be effective, if only to apply the pressure on your opponent, limiting his options. In my experience KJ+raptors are most useful in crews that are already good at scheme running. (Marcus.) Your opponent can't afford him to be walking around in his backfield, but eliminating KJ ties up significant resources for a turn or two. Which is normally enough to collect all 6 VP's from your schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippodruid Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I agree with brdparker. If that raptor ate two of a master's AP even once, that's probably worth the SS, but since it wasn't being killed, it could have tried for more. Also making enemy models into permanent beasts is a great boost for a Marcus list, which you should have free reign to try for if they're not killing the bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FertileSpade Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I agree with brdparker. If that raptor ate two of a master's AP even once, that's probably worth the SS, but since it wasn't being killed, it could have tried for more. Also making enemy models into permanent beasts is a great boost for a Marcus list, which you should have free reign to try for if they're not killing the bird.that's probably what I'm most inclined to do with the raptor in the future for a Marcus crew- turn models into beasts. IMO I wasn't impressed with Killjoy's output compared to cost and angyi is probably right that in a recon strat the points could be better spent elsewhere. I'm sure there are things I could have done better but overall I feel like the Killjoy/Raptor combo is kind of gimmicky and easily avoided. Also, Killjoy dies way too easily for a 13ss model as long as your opponent knows to finish him off in one turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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