Blood Ward and Terrifying

[joediamond]

I play a lot of Ironsides, so this has come up a few times.

 

The Oxfordian Mage Blood Ward upgrade gives friendlies with Warding Runes within its aura the Ability that says "This model is immune to Conditions caused by enemy models and damage from  effects."

 

I have always played this to mean that when an affected model has to test for Terrifying, they do not gain Paralyzed if they fail the Horror Duel, since it is being caused by an enemy model's Terrifying ability (although any effects that trigger off of a failed Wp duel still happen, such as Smell Fear).  Am I crazy, or do you think is this the correct interpretation?  I feel like it's really simple and straightforward, but I've had enough opponents ask about it so that I'm not so sure anymore.

Edited September 11, 2015 by joediamond
corrected wording and fixed typo

[joediamond]

Part of my assumption is from reading the FAQ:

"10) Q: Does being immune to damage caused by pulses make a model immune to the damage caused by failing a Simple Duel, if the Simple Duel was generated by a pulse?
A: Yes."

 

This sounds awfully similar to this (edited by me):

Q: Does being immune to Conditions caused by enemy models make a model immune to the Conditions caused by failing a Horror Duel [which is a Simple Duel], if the Horror Duel was generated by an enemy model?
A: Yes.

 

Ramos' spiders cannot be damaged by slice and dice, even though all it does it cause them to take a Simple Duel.  Should a model with warding runes get paralyzed by an enemy model's Terrifying, even though all it does it cause them to take a Simple Duel (i.e. a Horror Duel)?  I fail to see the difference.

Consider it this way, if you have a model on top of a height 9 building, and I use a rotten Belle to lure you off the edge and you take damage enough to kill your model, even though the belle directly caused the death of the model by forcing them to walk into the air, she actually didn't do any damage to the model, and thus gets no credit. The damage and death was caused by another rule being caused to come into effect as a result of their actions, in that particular case the rules for falling.

I am not sure that example is comparable.  The difference is the terrain is coming into play here.  If Ironsides was somehow moved/lured into a special terrain piece that forces Horror duels if you enter it, then I would agree that she is Paralyzed if she fails.  Terrifying on an enemy model is what is causing me to take this duel, not terrain.

[solkan]

I'm looking at the current answer ratings and wondering how much they're based on "I want this answer to be the right one, because it benefits me most." 

There are a whole bunch of conflicting precedents, if you're working from precedents:

• "immune to damage caused by pulses" includes damage caused indirectly by pulses
• Laugh Off prevents movement caused by other models, but doesn't prevent movement caused indirectly by other models: Obey to perform a walk.
• "The condition/fall killed the model, not your crew" when determining credit/blame for schemes.

So that's one precedent in favor, and two precedents against.  Laugh Off failing to prevent the model being Obey'ed to move is a pretty strong counter example.

 

[joediamond]

I'm looking at the current answer ratings and wondering how much they're based on "I want this answer to be the right one, because it benefits me most." 

 

Ha ha well keep in mind I also play Ressers, so while you're right, this is benefiting me in one area, it is also hurting me in another.    One day I'm the dauntless Ironsides, the next I'm a frustrated Molly player who can't get Paralyzed to stick on those pesky Arcanist henchmen!

• "immune to damage caused by pulses" includes damage caused indirectly by pulses
• Laugh Off prevents movement caused by other models, but doesn't prevent movement caused indirectly by other models: Obey to perform a walk.
• "The condition/fall killed the model, not your crew" when determining credit/blame for schemes.

On the point of precedents, I think Laugh Off does have some merit as a counterpoint, but I think your third one doesn't really match up.  If anything, it reminds me of this:

"3) Q: If a model is killed by an Ability or Action, which Crew counts as having made the kill?
A: When a model is killed as the result of an Action, the Crew controlling the Action counts as having made the kill. If a model is killed by an Ability, the model with the Ability counts as having made the kill"

Terrifying, being an ability on a model and not a condition/fall, would have more in common with this, wouldn't you say?  Granted, it doesn't actually kill a model, but in terms of determining "cause and effect", I think it's more valid.  Although I was more using that Pulse Damage Immunity FAQ ruling to say: "having a middle man doesn't change the source."  Does that make sense? 

Edited September 12, 2015 by joediamond
Clarification

[Fetid Strumpet]

Personally not sure. The Terrifying ability isn't actually causing you to gain the condition except indirectly. Terrifying doesn't cause you to gain the paralyzed condition, the rules for Horror duels cause it. All the Terrifying ability does is cause you to take such a duel, period, it does nothing else. If you fail the duel, the Terrifying ability isn't directly causing you to gain paralyzed, the rules for Horror are. 

Consider it this way, if you have a model on top of a height 9 building, and I use a rotten Belle to lure you off the edge and you take damage enough to kill your model, even though the belle directly caused the death of the model by forcing them to walk into the air, she actually didn't do any damage to the model, and thus gets no credit. The damage and death was caused by another rule being caused to come into effect as a result of their actions, in that particular case the rules for falling.

I'd agree at first glance the area is a grey one, however if I were forced to a side I'd tentatively side with a Terror ability not being affected by Blood Ward, but I could easily be wrong.

[Bengt]

I don't think Lure and falling is very similar to Blood Ward and Terrifying. Grab and Drop is though, and Kaeris counts as killing those.

[katadder]

the condition would be caused by an enemy models terrifying ability as it cause you to take a horror duel, the result of failing that is paralysed so it is caused by terrifying and therefore blood ward stops it.