horsman levi

[izikial]

how is the horsmaster doing now were out of bata, because of his ridicules popularity both in my local metta in in the torni scene I have stoped using Levi, but ever since 1st ed avatar Levi I have been looking forward to this

I have a few questions about your finds.

dose he work at 50ss

dose he suffer from the lack of utility his avatar version gives him

is it op, gimmick or balanced

how much do you spend on upgrades, and wich ones

[Kalkris]

Well, for starters, welcome back to Leve discussions!

Next, to answer your various questions...:

Leve works with Horseman models at a 50ss game size - but not in the way you want him to.

You need to hire the Hodgepodge Emissary with Aetherial Conflux (10ss + 0ss for the upgrade) and 3 of the 4 riders (12*3=36, so 46 total)... The issue with that is you can only hire 3/4 of the Horsemen like this in a non-Campaign game, since you have absolutely no access to aLeve, and since they each cost 12ss (and because none of them are both construct AND undead so you'd NEED the Hodgepodge Emissary to hire a third Horseman - and that sinks you 10ss for hiring), you're stuck paying 46ss for 3 horsemen and a guy on a donkey (unless you bring in your aLeve model which is a counts-as, and is mor thematic by far). I mean, the benefit here is 2 extra stones, but it's probably not much worth it. It's definitely a gimmick crew and while you *can* mitigate the lower model count with Leve and the inevitable hiring of the Mechanical Rider (seriously - you'd be a fool not to hire it here), it is a low model count and that's an issue.

As for upgrades, you just take up to 4ss of what you deem reasonable for any Leve crew (besides the Pariahs as those are now a waste due to lack of stones for hiring enough worthwhile constructs/undead). Personally, though, I would just go ahead and hire the Hodgepodge Effigy in lieu of those because 1) he is 4ss, 2) he makes soulstones when Leve kills a thing (and yes, Leve kills things), and 3) having a minion you don't expect to sacrifice offhand is a good thing in the case of schemes like Make The Suffer, et al.

So, there you have it. Gimmick crew that can't be fully thematic even if you proxy the aLeve model as the Emissary, takes up precious soulstones, and leaves you with a small model count (at first, as it can grow if you wish it to) featuring either high-end models which you will want to use as killers, or insignificant free-men to keep your Master alive (granted, the Emissary is good here because he can push things and have them drop Scheme Markers, but that requires you to have some VP scored already - although he can do it to himself at the cost of a card from your hand).

Side note: I had to reread the upgrade on the Hodgepodge Emissary and I was very saddened to see that he cannot sacrifice himself to summon in a new Rider. I thought that used to be an option and now I am a bit saddened by that. Anyone else notice that?

~Lil Kalki

[boots468]

Yes he can - it's the Emissary's (1) action on the 0ss Leveticus specific upgrade to sacrifice himself in turn 1 to summon a horseman, only if you hire 3 to begin with.

 

So, you have Leve, 2 Waifs, the 4 Horsemen (1 with a trinket (unless you Black Joker it) - the Regen one seems best, and probably on the Mech Rider?) with 4ss left over. I'd be tempted by the Hodgepodge Effigy with those 4 stones, but a bigger cache/ upgrades may be a cleverer move. Oathkeepers on Leve and a couple of the Horsemen maybe?

 

I don't think it is an optimal list, but might do okay with the right schemes. Shame the Emissary is on table so shortly - you won't get to see the 4 horsemen next to Avatar Leve.

[Kalkris]

Wait a moment, for some reason that isn't listed in the most recent iteration I have of the upgrades... Weird.

Ah well, Better find the more recent stuff I guess Thanks!

~Lil Kalki

[izikial]

a little disappointed its a bit gimmicky, I know you cant make it stronger than normal or it become default, but feels like it was just given to us to shut us up, but we lose a Levi emissary upgrade in the process.

would it be worth taking the emissary and upgrade to combo 2 horsemen you normaly cant, mech and dead or something?
, ,

[TimH]

In general the 4 horsemen list appears to be quite similar to the crossroads 7.

Players want to be able to run the list because it is cool and thematic so wyrd have included measures within the rules to allow for the list to be run. Is the list any good/competitive? Probably not. Pretty much always going to come down to the factors that in both cases the list is very inflexible, low on model count and has constituent parts that all behave in a relatively similar manner.

[Sancho of Rime]

it might be true that you've few models....having... 2 waifs.. So you'll start with 7 activations. Unless you're playing someone who is spamming guardsmen or zombies you wont be so bad off. They're all enforcers so those minion targeting schemes are thrown off. The horsemen are all very good models and they're all anchors.

The riders are all pretty good at different things. I know usually schemes are picked because they work well together. In the Four Horseman list, you could take radically different schemes are have a good chance of pulling them off. So it'll throw the enemy off.

dead rider makes a awesome anchor.

[paxmiles]

Could always take Nix and some hounds, then model on "fake" riders for the hounds and nix, just to bulk up the numbers of the themematic calvary army. False mounts for infantry could also work, either "stick horses," or the monty python and the holy grail coconut option.

As mentioned, it will be tough to field a viable 50ss horsemen crew without sacrifices, like the above.

[Kirby]

I think people who complain about the list being out-activated or overly gimmicky haven't run it.  You start the game with 8-9 activations just with the base crew and can easily maintain that 8+ activation trend.  Leveticus, Waif 1, waif 2, Waif 3 (if summoned), Dead Rider, Mechanical Rider, Pale Rider, Hodgepodge Emissary, Hooded Rider.  Now add in potential Mechanical Rider summons and Desolate Soul summons on future turns.

Yes, Turn 1 you don't have an explosive start like some crews can (Viks, Sonnia, Raspy, etc).  Turn 2 the momentum starts and Turn 3+ you're in full swing.  Early losses of big-ticket models hurts, but that's fairly normal.  Leveticus tends to take a few elite models over numerous midling ones anyway due to the two 0ss Waifs that come with him, so protecting your big guys during approach should already be a common tactic.

[jondoe297]

Saw this list run very effectively at a tournament a couple of weeks ago! 

It is themey, it is a bit gimmicky but it has legs imo

Desolate soul on levy, possibly oathie or just take the stones

Turn one and two you gotta be a bit cautious but turn 3 onwards it should be fair game!

Model activation will be balanced through desolate soul and mechanical rider

[Jordon]

I'm curious what people do with the 4ss left over from the hiring. What upgrades tend to work best with this type of list? Do you put anything on the riders themselves, or do you try to maximize Levi?

[jondoe297]

Unless strat is collect the bounty or reckoning, it's gotta be desolate soul.

2 stones is low, I would up his cache personally, but could oath Keeper it up

[Jordon]

So even though you won't be getting much from the hodgepodge emissary, you do get 1AP that you can use to give out a trinket. Of these trinkets, which one would you say works the best in this list and what model would you put it on?

Personally, I'd say the companion or the regen would be the better options and I'd probably put it on the more melee oriented riders such as dead or hooded. However there could be some nastiness to come from the reactivate upgrade if you can hold off until the last turn to try and double up on the "final ride" action of one of the riders.