What do you do with Voodoo?

[Haunter]

I just played my first game with Zoraida this weekend.  All in all I was pleased with her and her little friend.  I summoned the little blighter on T1 and immediately hemmed Johanna, then proceeded to try unsuccessfully to Burn her down with Hex Bag.  She kept healing with her (2) healing tactical, which had the net effect of her not doing much else, and she was a very willing subject to Obey with the + flip for being hemmed.

 

I didn't actually have to move Mama Z or the doll the whole game (anomalous situation, granted) but that left me at a loss.  Just what do you do with a Voodoo Doll's own activation?  If they're on the move, he'd have to double walk just to keep up with Zoraida, but on a turn where they sit still, just what do you do with him?  

 

I didn't need to walk.  I didn't want to hem a different target.  There was nothing to flail at with his tiny little nubbin-arms.  One turn I focused twice just so I felt like I'd used his AP.  

 

What tricks and shenanigans am I missing out on here?

[Dirial]

My brother likes to jump down towers with it.

 

...

 

...

 

What?

[Dirial]

In all seriousness, try a Nurse and a Performer. Activate the Nurse and pile Poison on the doll (and thus it's Hemmed victim). Activate the doll and Hem someone else. Activate the Performer and Expunge the first Victim and the doll. That's around 14 damage out of two 5SS Minions.

[Wee Little Puppet Man]

Last game I played, I activated the little bugger to double hit Lucius for a total amount of 6 damage. He never felt better in his puppet life. Granted, that only happens in a bazillion years and only if you play Zoraida the Fate Master against "Look mommy, without hands!" Lucius. But boy, dit it feel good...

 

On the trick department, I'm planning on using Vasilisa to sew the doll with her attack, so the hemmed model receives the damage and condition, for then using her (0) to make the doll hem some other poor fella. On his activation, the doll will take (and share!) the damage for removing the condition and can do whatever voodoo dolls do on this day and age.

 

Other funny thing is to benefit from your oponent's auras and traps, like the... trappers traps? You see, if you activate next to them you have to pas a 12 wk duel or receive slow. And this guy doesn't really like walking...

 

Then there is the Weaver's Doll Factory. Each turn you kill your doll for damage, and then turn the scrap counter into a nice wicked doll and future teddy. Profit. One thing I want to try is what I call The Old Ladies Tea Party . I would leave Zoraida, the Weaver and Vasilisa having fun sewing and talking abut their things in the rearguard, while they dispense pain and dolls each turn to deal with the oponent. I'm not sure it will work, but it will be fun. And there will be cookies 

[Nical]

I think walking to Zoraida is not bad. Because Dance,puppet is useful ability to move hemmed model. 

[TimH]

So on Monday I played Zoraida with Nekima and Iggy and began the game with a Voodoo doll in play.
A few pointers.

 

1. Voodoo doll can be worth the 3 stones to purchase it. In this game its first activation was to hem Nekima. With a push from Mr Graves and 3x Dance Puppet Dance from Zoraida you can get a high threat beat stick like Nekima or a Teddy right up in the enemies face without having to spend the models AP.

2. Other people have given their own takes on this (Nurse performer, Vasilisa) but my personal favourite voodoo kill switch is Iggy with Depression. As a (0) action he can discard a tome to gain extra tomes for his entire activation. With his built in suit and trigger he can then light up the doll with his remaining ap for 6-8 burning (not even a black joker can prevent this). If you are able to have the doll then hem a new target this is probably 2 very dead minions (or if you keep your target a dead enforcer/henchman)

[moxypoo]

I always look for really nasty conditions that I'd like to apply to enemy models without going through all the pesky trouble of interacting with them.  Loading up the Doll with Burning from Iggy is a great one that I haven't thought of yet!

So far, my two favorite models to combo with the Voodoo Doll are Vasilisa and the Nurse. Both provide conditions that can completely shut down an enemy model for a turn and give your crew a lot of utility.  For example, you can attack the Doll with Vasilisa to make a dangerous beater unable to take Walks, use Twist to change the Hemmed target, and then attack again to put another detrimental condition on another model. Using a Waldgeist to put Rooted or even Slow on the Doll can also be very powerful.

Hemming one of your own models to use as a missile is useful in certain situations as well as TimH mentioned. You can often get a first turn charge with something dangerous like Nekima or Teddy using this tactic.

[Whut]

I really like the idea of Iggy, but isn't depression a bit overkill? If you do 6-8 burning on the doll, sure that is more damage, but the doll will also die, meaning Zoraida is going to have to use 2 more AP to summon it back the following turn. If you don't put depression on Iggy, he can do 5 burning (4 + using the tome you would have discarded for Depression) for a total of 10 damage (enough to kill most models) or 5 damage to two models (again, either killing or severely damaging two minions) and then doll can be healed back up with only 1 AP spent from a Nurse and a crow, simultaneously paralyzing the hemmed target. Is that extra 2 damage from depression worth 1SS and missing out on 2 Obeys, or an Animal Shape->AoE push, or 2 tries at the draw cards condition? Also Iggy gets to use his mood swing this way, which can be awesome at the top of turns.

Edit:Just adding more thoughts:

Also I feel like Vasilisa is wasted on trying to dump conditions on the Doll. If you want damage, use iggy, if you want crowd control, use the nurse. Vasilisa, being super squishy and 9ss, is better used to slingshot models across the board than fulfill the job of a 5ss or 6ss model, only worse. Plus most enemy beatsticks (which you want to crowd control) will just choose to take the damage anyway so it's not a super reliable shutdown option. On the other hand, if you take the Emissary with Zoraida, it also buffs Vasilisa's obey on its attacks as it specifies "enemy models which take the Obey action" (paraphrased) so she might turn out to be a decent choice anyway (though she still doesn't get the built in mask).

Another thing to consider is that the Doll can only take so much punishment per turn, limited by its wounds and the amount of time it can use Hem and you can heal it. I'm not experienced with her yet, but I'll be taking Iggy and a Nurse as the Voodoo doll squad, and loading the rest of my list up with things to engage my enemy. The best part is that both of those models can also contribute to the game directly after voodoo runs out of its best targets, and are also in the perfect price range and have the perfect threat range to achieve schemes like protect territory late in the game.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Whut

[Dirial]

I see those two AP by Zoraida as her attacks. She attacks through her Doll, and I think those are pretty decent attacks compared to other Masters.

[Whut]

I see those two AP by Zoraida as her attacks. She attacks through her Doll, and I think those are pretty decent attacks compared to other Masters.

Correct me if I'm wrong, my thought process is this: why would you spend 2 AP on a master every turn to attack when with a little restraint you could spend 2 AP on turn one, and following turns 1 AP from a Nurse  (Or 1 AP on the master with the right upgrade, or 1 AP on the master to obey the nurse) and have the other 1-2 master AP free for other actions, for comparable effects (10 dmg + paralyze vs 12-14 dmg). 

Not to say that stacking huge amounts of burning isn't an option, for example against a really tough model like a Rider or Peacekeeper, or your opponent's bodyguard target, but aside from REALLY needing to kill something, I think turn to turn that Zoraida's AP are more useful than cranking out a smidgen of extra damage (again, depending on circumstances)

Edited August 26, 2015 by Whut

[Dirial]

Oh, I agree. Ten damage out of Burning 5 is often worth more when it doesn't kill the Doll. I just meant that the 2 AP of her are seldom "waste" because it's effectively her attack.

[decker_cky]

There's times when you need 10 damage this turn, and there's times when you can be more patient. It's a great tool in the bag. 

[tomjoad]

Using Widow Weaver's Exhale Terror attack on the Doll is pretty fun, too. You get a couple damage, but better is the almost guaranteed Paralyzed and the Weaver lets you draw a card. Very fun.

[Dirial]

Using Widow Weaver's Exhale Terror attack on the Doll is pretty fun, too. You get a couple damage, but better is the almost guaranteed Paralyzed and the Weaver lets you draw a card. Very fun.

Good find. The Weaver makes hitting with Hem easier, too.

[cupcake390]

I have used him with iggy. You can give him burning 4 I also like to send him to the target of the hem. I like nekima for hem if you can get it. You give the doll burning 4 and go over to nekima in combat. The burning is given to nekima and when she takes that damage you start the black blood engine. Which will make an infinent loop. You only get a max of 6 damage if you don't get the black blood going befor burning but, if you get it befor burning you get 10. Not to bad. 

[Dirial]

I have used him with iggy. You can give him burning 4 I also like to send him to the target of the hem. I like nekima for hem if you can get it. You give the doll burning 4 and go over to nekima in combat. The burning is given to nekima and when she takes that damage you start the black blood engine. Which will make an infinent loop. You only get a max of 6 damage if you don't get the black blood going befor burning but, if you get it befor burning you get 10. Not to bad. 

This sounds like it would work way better with Poison.

[moxypoo]

I have used him with iggy. You can give him burning 4 I also like to send him to the target of the hem. I like nekima for hem if you can get it. You give the doll burning 4 and go over to nekima in combat. The burning is given to nekima and when she takes that damage you start the black blood engine. Which will make an infinent loop. You only get a max of 6 damage if you don't get the black blood going befor burning but, if you get it befor burning you get 10. Not to bad. 

This sounds like it would work way better with Poison.

Much better.  You only need 1 damage to get the chain started - you could even have the Voodoo Doll attack Nekima (or any other Hemmed model with Black Blood) for 1 damage since the two models have to be within 1" anyway.  It seems like it would be difficult to set up since you would have to get Nekima within 1" of one or more enemy models and the super slow Voodoo Doll within 1" of Nekima.

Might be easiest to fly Nekima up into a cluster of enemy models, summon the Doll within 1" of Nekima, and use its free Hem to Hem Nekima. Then any damage taken by Nekima results in 6 damage to everything in the immediate area.

[Whut]

I've been thinking of the Nekima tactic and is it really worth it? I mean 6 damage is great but considering how hard the combo is to set up and the fact that Nekima (A 13+Upgrades SS model) herself also takes 6 wounds. On the other hand, anything in the game can be given Black Blood with a BB Shaman - for example a Depleted. I don't care if a Depleted takes 6 wounds. Zoraida can summon the Doll for 2, have it immediately Hem, and then Obey or attack the Depleted for 1 damage. That's a 7 damage splash, or 6 damage if the Doll is the one who takes damage first. For a bigger base, Waldgeists would also work fine I'd think, though the black blood is otherwise wasted on them if you want to take advantage of their 4" engagement range. Using the BB Shaman himself in case of the Depleted dying would do the same exact thing.

 

I'd also only do this combo if I can set it up and make it go off in a single or chain activation. Sitting the doll next to a black blood target it has hemmed and letting your opponent activate is just asking them to attack from >1" away and do 6-7 damage on the doll and Black Blood model, which is a huge loss of resources, even if using a Depleted.