Arcanists ... am I doing it wrong?

[surly]

... "wRong". Not "wong"

 

 

My main faction is Arcanists for about one year now and since then I collected most minis of the faction.

I probably tried out everyone of them at least a few times, however I have a feeling I became super one-sided recently ...

 

When it comes to masters I have Marcus, Ramos, Colette, Raspy and Kaeris available and switch between them depending on strategies, schemes and overall mood

Most of the time I mainly play Marcus, Ramos or Raspy though.

However concering the rest of my crews I almost have no or at best minimal variation in it. Looking through all my models, I almost exclusively play these few:

 

- Joss

- Myranda (switching into a Blessed 90% of the time )

- Cassandra

- Johan

- Howard Langston

- Mechanical Rider (summoning Metal Gamin 99% if the time)

- December Acolyte

- Silurid (Marcus)

 

I sometimes bring ...

- totems

- Captain

- Angelica

- Waldgeist (Marcus)

 

 

Also, best case scenario I always include 3 Imbued Energies, "worst case" I only have 2 in my lists.

 

 

With such a huge pool it feels kinda odd only fielding the same stuff over and over. Since we're playing pretty competitive in our club and I have a pretty good win:loss ratio I don't really have a huge desire switching a lot ... basically "never change a winning team".

 

To be honest, even though the main intention should be to always play the strategy, it's pretty hefty to throw a fast Howard Langston and a God's Domaining, Debuffing, fast Marcus at my opponent, killing key models early.

... or to just summon 4 minions worth 16 points each round with Ramos and Mech Rider in schemes where minions matter.

... or just laugh at my opponent when marker-heavy schemes are announced and I field both Mech Rider and 2 Silurids, while Marcus gets after his scheme runners and hammers them down.

... or play Colette, which basically is everything of the above combined, just with a fancy hat

 

 

I play really agressive most of the time and these models really support such a playstyle. So far whenever I fielded stuff like Razorspine Rattler, Fire Gamin, Silent Ones or whatever else the faction holds it always felt inferior for my personal playstyle.

I'd really like to include them everytime I build a list, just because I like their style, but in the end they remain in my storage boxes since quite a while now.

 

Therefore I'd be really interested if I'm the only one here who has this kind of "one-sided" experience after you've played a faction more extensive. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to moan, it's just something I'm interested in.

Maybe I'm just a typical lamer that can't win a game without running Mech Rider and 3 IE. Maybe all I can do is throw 10+SS cost models at my opponent and call it "my playstyle" ... tbh: I don't know 

[Adran]

Sounds like you have developed a play style and worked out which models fit that style. Regardless of the master!

I feel for you with the imbued energies.

I would rather an Imbued Cerberus than Myranda, the ability to get that extra AP when I need it is of more use to me.

 

Personally I hate metal gamin. They never seem to do anything for me. I know what people say, but they just don't click with me. I think I would only summon them if there were constrcuts about to magnitise, and I just don't hire them. (And they are Plastic. What are you doing with Plastic models?)

[Fog]

I've run into similar issues myself. It's hard for me to break the mold when I feel like I've "solved" a master. I try to branch out sometimes but it tends to lead to unfavorable results.

I'm not sure that this is a bad thing, so long as you don't feel like it's bad. If your team is running well and you don't mind the lack of diversity then you just play what works. If you're having second thoughts because your l teams are becoming stale, try bringing the "wrong" master for a match up and use an unexpected lineup to help you handle it

[surly]

Sounds like you have developed a play style and worked out which models fit that style. Regardless of the master!

I feel for you with the imbued energies.

I would rather an Imbued Cerberus than Myranda, the ability to get that extra AP when I need it is of more use to me.

 

Yeah, sums it up pretty much. I'm not sure though if that's a good thing or not

 

Cerberus with IE is awesome, as is Blessed with IE. I definately know what you mean and I considered it a few times for myself. However I don't shapeshift Myranda asap but more when I need it. She has some decent stats, so sometimes I use IE for fast on her ... charge something, hit it 3 times, shapechange, hit it again, leap away.

On the other hand it's nice to have those 4 cards available when you need them. Whenever I don't have Myranda included I can almost be sure that I won't have that **** 6+ of in my hand by turn 2 to get Rider going. When she's in the list though my hand is full of    and there's not really a need to sacrifice her. Karma I guess   

 

I almost always shift into a Blessed and only a few times into Mauler and Cerberus. For me he's the perfect mix of the two with both solid offence and defence. Having an easier Leap than Cerberus while being Frozen Heart is another bonus.

... to be fair though, Blessed was the last piece missing in my collection, therefore I like playing more than I probably should

 

Personally I hate metal gamin. They never seem to do anything for me. I know what people say, but they just don't click with me. I think I would only summon them if there were constrcuts about to magnitise, and I just don't hire them.

 

Can't agree more. Early on I hired them from time to time since people go overboard when they write about them ... to be fair, they're tanky, really tanky for a 4SS model. When they buff themselves they even deal a reasonable amount of damage (3 in total thanks to burning) but since they almost never hit I wouldn't count on it.

Magnetizing your opponents stuff is pretty lame however, 2 free damage, almost not avoidable and with a range 16 ... what's not to like?

 

Since them I almost never hired them for about half a year (I guess?). The reason I summon them with Mech Rider though is that they're tanky and therefore super annoying for my opponent to remove. Mech Rider runs along the flanks anyway and spreads them out letting them do their thing (=set a marker, then protect the marker). To remove that marker my opponent has to kill that Gamin first, which becomes really AP intensive (getting there, 2 AP to kill it, 1 AP to remove the marker ...). Or they just set their Df to 6 and Defense twice when Reconnoiter / Turf War is in the pool for example.

 

 

What do you summon then?

Ice Gamin, Fire Gamin, Mannequin, Arachnids ... that's basically it right now. I'm really looking forward for Wind Gamin, which will be a really great alternative for me.

Arachnids are great in Ramos who can throw them out like candy, but without I don't really see the advantage. They're in position most of the time anyway, so they don't need to move around much.

Ice Gamin are nice from time to time for Raspy, but beside that I can't see much use for them.

Fire Gamin are more offensive options compared to his metal brother imo. I only summon them when I'm already winning basically.

Mannequin I wanted to use a few times so far, but only made it once or twice I guess. I don't really see their advantage.

 

(And they are Plastic. What are you doing with Plastic models?)

 

... buying old Ice Gamin and painting them metal

[surly]

I've run into similar issues myself. It's hard for me to break the mold when I feel like I've "solved" a master. I try to branch out sometimes but it tends to lead to unfavorable results.

I'm not sure that this is a bad thing, so long as you don't feel like it's bad. If your team is running well and you don't mind the lack of diversity then you just play what works. If you're having second thoughts because your l teams are becoming stale, try bringing the "wrong" master for a match up and use an unexpected lineup to help you handle it

 

Haha, I came to the same conclusion a few weeks ago and decided to simply buy two more factions

 

The thing is, I'm also not sure if thats good or bad. It's great knowing all the cards in my list inside out, and even with only ~10 models and 5 masters you get quite a lot of variation.

[Bengt]

 

What do you summon then?

Ice Gamin, Fire Gamin, Mannequin, Arachnids ... that's basically it right now. I'm really looking forward for Wind Gamin, which will be a really great alternative for me.

Wind Gamin are not Constructs because apparently they don't look enough like Constructs even though they are very similar to Fire and Ice Gamin.

[Fog]

In the fluff, they're naturally occurring. They live in the mountains. I'm honestly not sure why they are even called gamin

[paradoxstorm]

Chess has only 6 distinct pieces and a mere 64 distinct board locations yet people manage to engage it deeply for a very, very long time.  If that's how you wish to play Malifaux then so be it.  Clearly it is working for you and if you are happy with your current approach to the game then sell off/give away your unused models so that they are not torturing you with sad puppy looks as you ignore them yet again.

 

But if you are not happy the only way to move beyond your current comfortable choices is to get uncomfortable for a while and play different models until you figure out how they work.  

 

What's the advice?  "Ten games with a master to get a reasonable understanding of how the master works."  Or something like that.  Whatever, the same advice applies to individual models.

 

You didn't learn how to use Mech Rider or Cassandra effectively in a single game or two or even three.  You played them, made mistakes, learned, and eventually started using them effectively.

 

Toss a new model in the game and your hard-won expertise is gone.  You have no knowledge base for that particular model.  In addition it is the "new guy" on the team and since you don't understand it individually you certainly won't use it effectively as part of the team.

 

You will use the new model badly, make mistakes, and probably lose.  That's uncomfortable!  

 

You will never figure out some models--but you will find places for some that you've been ignoring till now.  But you'll  have to get uncomfortable first.  

[paradoxstorm]

. (And they are Plastic. What are you doing with Plastic models?)

 

 

 

... buying old Ice Gamin and painting them metal

 

 

OOOOOO!  I wish this had occurred to me before I ordered a box of plastic "metal" gamin!!!!

[zFiend]

Painting old ice Gamin in metal...? My god!

[surly]

Painting old ice Gamin in metal...? My god!

 

[zFiend]

Finally a proxy for the Metal Gamins!! 

[Kadeton]

I find it's very easy to fall into playing a small set of models - a similar thing happened to me with the Outcasts. After a few months, I'd settled on a stable I was comfortable with, and because I knew the ins and outs of each model very well, I got very good results from them. Other models, even ones that seemed better on paper, just never managed to perform as well for me... basically because I didn't really give them a fair chance, just used them a few times without getting to properly understand them, then discarding them in favour of more familiar options.

If you're looking to expand your repertoire, I'd suggest helping your regular opponents develop strategies to beat the models you regularly use. Usually, models perform well above their 'real' power level against opponents that aren't equipped to deal with them effectively. Helping your opponents combat your usual strategies will encourage you to develop new ones, and you'll all increase in skill as a result.

If that doesn't sound like your style, try playing a different Faction for a while, then come back to the Arcanists and see if your perspective has changed.

[TychoTerziev]

Be thankful for what you got! I have the opposite problem and it is excruciating- I want to play everything! Well, almost everything, union miners, Cojo, mole men, hoarcat pride and razospine rattlers won't hit my side of the table. Many people consider Mei Feng and Ironsides uncompetitive , but I disagree- they can be brutal in the right situations. In my last game Mei Feng singlehandedly locked Pandora's crew down and Ironsides can achieve inhuman feats if set up right. My point? Too much choice can be a problem- every game I face complete analysis paralysis, trying to figure out what I should play. I love every Arcanist master and want to play everyone of them. With 1-2 games per week this becomes a tough choice. So, nothing wrong with playing with (not so) few models...