asrian Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Sending you an IM on here, just so I don't clutter up the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Asrian, I just sent you a PM about a game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Okay, I should be having people playtest around here tomorrow! Â ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Wsorry g u ys have been ludicrously busy lately. But i have played about 3 more games with the crew and my opponents have given me great advice. They said to try the haze like rider abilities. Also not sure what the monkeys do for him at this point they have no real utility for the crew where most give at least some utility. Also love lizzy mercury and lola now they are fantastic and balanced for cost. Love the new ability in cooper fits the fluff great. So far the only ones in not impressed with is the m9nkeys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Wsorry g u ys have been ludicrously busy lately. But i have played about 3 more games with the crew and my opponents have given me great advice. They said to try the haze like rider abilities. Also not sure what the monkeys do for him at this point they have no real utility for the crew where most give at least some utility. Also love lizzy mercury and lola now they are fantastic and balanced for cost. Love the new ability in cooper fits the fluff great. So far the only ones in not impressed with is the m9nkeys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Glad to see you liked the new Mr. Cooper! I'm really happy with how he's coming out at the moment! Also good to hear the core crew is basically done! Just need to finalise the Mummerettes & Monkeys. How were the Mummerettes? Were they too good on Def (ie. should it be dropped to Df5)? I'm also not really psyched about the monkeys at present, they have a lot on their cards, but don't really do much, especially now they're Insig. They just feel like a really cheap model, not a Totem. Any suggestions?  Since the crew is so reliant on Masks, what about saccrificing the model to give another model Masks to all their flips in the next Activation? Would this be too strong?  Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 With the upgrade to summon monkeys how about another sacrifice that ups Tn for every enemy model in aura 3 by 2 till end of turn then sacrifice this model and make it a (2) call it in a puff of smoke tthat way you can position with fly away with one or two to position and savk one for the effect at end of turn. Just an idea mummerettes i feel could be yo yos for mr cooper being able to move up field attack and spin back to cooper maybe a trigger on stage props that lets them push 4 towards cooper on tomes. Also with the with using haze like riders suit abilities makes it so turn one there is no haze so it creeps up on opponent and makes the crew not under or over powered. One of my guys ask to play at using turn and by turn 5 they were sighing and crying while they felt that at 3 it didnt seem to matter but 4 seem to be magic number also id suggest adding the haze to all models in crew for solidaritys sake. I think right now only mercury doesnt have it which is why its odd to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Let me think of how to word that (Tactical Action) for the Monkeys...  (2) In A Puff Of Smoke: Until end of turn, enemy models within 3 receive -2 Wp when performing Simple Duels. Until end of turn, friendly models within 3 gain + to opposed duels. Sacrifice this model. This Action may only be taken by a Crew once per turn.  This doesn't necessarily up the TNs of Simple Duels for friendly models, but it does essentially the same thing you are looking for. As for the +M, Da Git said the crew is mask intensive, and it is a (2) action, so I figure it's fair. Summoned Monkeys cannot take it so thats good, but it still needs to evade abuse so hence my clause at the end.  Now, when you mention the Riders and their ability, you say you want it to start on T2, but in such a case, are you capping the Haze at +3? Because you mention T5 being a nightmarish scenario for the opponent. However, the team had been informed in the past that the Haze is underwhelming at low numbers and although we want high numbers lategame, during the early game the opponent will surivive past the low TNs and then slaughter the crew, leaving only a few models around for the Haze to apply with.  Couldn't we just cap it at +4 and then have it start at T1? I am not entirely certain I am understanding the suggestion (which could be the fault of my just waking up haha).  As for Mercury not having the Haze, that was a fluff consideration (in our collective fluffy [headcanon] backstory, Mercury and Cooper are the only characters not replaced with complete doppelgangers), but I think that it's also because Mercury has so many abilities already that we couldn't do that anyway. Plus, Mercury seems good as he is, so unless we remove one of his abiities, which would disrupt that "good-as-he-is" status, we can't give him the Haze.  I do like the suggestion to the Monkeys, too!  Nice!  ~Lil Kalki  EDIT: I just edited the wording of the action to include things for the crew as well. see above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm also not understanding the Riders analogy. So basically make it the turn minus 1? I did think about that, but went against it simply because it felt like a waste of space when we could simply change the TNs.  How did they find all the Simple duels? Were there too many? Was it frustrating flipping so many cards for them? How were the TN's? I gather from your last comment that they were too low in the early game. Is that the case?  That's a nice little Action you got there Kalki, definately makes them feel more totem like. Let's give that a shot! I think we could also drop Semi-Reliable for it.  Another option is to make enemy models within the Pulse lose their immunity to Wp duels. That way a Relentless crew wouldn't screw the Carnival over... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm also not understanding the Riders analogy. So basically make it the turn minus 1? I did think about that, but went against it simply because it felt like a waste of space when we could simply change the TNs.  How did they find all the Simple duels? Were there too many? Was it frustrating flipping so many cards for them? How were the TN's? I gather from your last comment that they were too low in the early game. Is that the case?  That's a nice little Action you got there Kalki, definately makes them feel more totem like. Let's give that a shot! I think we could also drop Semi-Reliable for it.  Another option is to make enemy models within the Pulse lose their immunity to Wp duels. That way a Relentless crew wouldn't screw the Carnival over...  I think a blend of the two is fair (so -1Wp during Simple Duels and loses immunity to Wp duels including immunities gained from succeeding in a Horror Duel) if we go into stopping Relentless. Izamu is a mean model to deal with haha  I think that making the Monkeys have the ability to make Horror Duels happen at a higher rate through their sacrifice means they're quite good. Also, maybe put the Semi-Reliable action on the Circus Troop upgrade, with a preamble:  "Friendly Flying Monkey models within 6 of this model gain the following Tactical Action:"  ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Are you trying to make the Mummerettes into annoying fighters or scheme runners? Because right now, on paper I see them as broken scheme runners. For 5ss you get 6 wounds, Wk6, can't be charged, can't be locked down in combat, get plus flips to their Df and Wp on a 12-13 Wp test (so either drain good cards or get a bonus) which is super high, H2K, can teleport 12", and if ever walked up to and engaged, they have a 2/3/5 attack with a decent Ml and either + to hit or to damage, a trigger to do it again, and a built in trigger to push away (and therefore be unable to be charged after attacking 2-3 times). Even at Df5, thats like Jack of all trades, master of none, but REALLY good at all of them and REALLY cheap too. I think they can stay the way they are if made insignificant minions (and thus forced into a combat role) or if you want to keep them significant I'd suggest some big cuddles. Again, on paper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's in practice too though. The Mummerettes are amazingly resilient and rather strong offensively. I personally would like them to stay significant, but agree that they need toniing down to a high degree.  Based on the game my friend played against Cooper using Misaki, early on, it was apparent that these things were remarkably resilient. I think removing HtK would be okay, as well as lowering the Df to 4 or 5. The Masks ability is very strong and gets stronger each turn. I also think we can remove 1dg from their severe as well as the repeat attack trigger without having too much of an issue with their offensive capabilities. Also perhaps making that push trigger not an automatic would be better as well.  I can also see Masks being a bit high as well, so perhaps lowering its TN to 9 would be reasonable too since it's only a 5stone minion...  So, in essence, once further proven as borked, the following should be changed (and what it should be changed to is here too):  Df (6 -> 4 or 5) Hard to Kill (present -> absent) Masks of Joy and Sorrow TN (10 -> 9) Stage Props Ml (5 -> 5) Stage Props Dg track (2/3/5 -> 2/3/4) Can I Have Another Volunteer? suits ( -> )  Cheers!  ~Lil Kalki  EDIT: I might also want to try to get another Simple Duel added onto the Mummerette card so that we can make as much use of Haze as we can. I almost think that the Haze should be an aura at this point o_o But, if we do it aura-style we can remove the Haze from the unnamed models like Mummerettes and Monkeys pretty safely. What do you all think?  Rewording The Haze Only Gets Thicker would mean this, roughly:  The Haze Only Gets Thicker: Simple Duels generated by friendly models within 3 of one or more models with this ability, and upgrade attached to those models, add the current Turn number to their TN, to a maximum of +3.  Since there is no "+1" at the end of THOGT, it cannot stack except by way of the turn count, but just in case I added the "one or more models with this ability" clause. Discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Â The Haze Only Gets Thicker: Simple Duels generated by friendly models within 3 of one or more models with this ability, and upgrade attached to those models, add the current Turn number to their TN, to a maximum of +3. Â Since there is no "+1" at the end of THOGT, it cannot stack except by way of the turn count, but just in case I added the "one or more models with this ability" clause. Discuss! I think that just serves to complicate things, and leave it open for being broken with models outside the crew. I don't think a Teddy needs to generate TN15+ Horror duels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I think that just serves to complicate things, and leave it open for being broken with models outside the crew. I don't think a Teddy needs to generate TN15+ Horror duels. good point! Never mind haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 What is the point of making THOGT an Aura? Is it to save space on cards? Balance reasons?  While I like the idea of Auras (I'd just put it on Mr.Cooper & maybe Lola, make it 6 and restrict it to Carny models, I'd also limit it to Wp duels), it might be hard to balance as the TN's need to be high enough to be worthwhile outside the Aura, but then not too bonkers within it.  What about this?  The Haze Only Gets Thicker: Simple Wp Duels generated by friendly models with the Carny Characteristic, and upgrade attached to those models, within 6 of one or more models with this ability add the current Turn number minus one to their TN, to a maximum of +3.  That means that turn one it does diddly, then goes up from there to a maximum of +3. We can then balance the TNs around that.  I think this would be good as it would then save a bit of space and repetition on the cards rather than have the same thing on the entire crew's cards. Hopefully we can balance out the TNs!  As for the Mummerettes, my origional thought was making them Coryphee . I've taken almost all their abilities from the Coryphee and made it worse. For example, Coryphee have a permanent + to their Df & Wp, it's not reliant on a TN, they have Armour 2 and 4wds as upposed to 6 wounds with HtK (not sure which is better here). they have Higher Wk, a Ch (although I'm going give Mummerettes a Ch of 6), Ml, and some better triggers (Hypnotised is amazing!). + the Coryphee can dance together! Coryphee also cost 2ss more.  Some ideas: Why don't we Guild Hound them. Make them Insignificant with an Ability like: Eternal partner: This model may ignore the Insignificant Ability while within 5 of a friendly Master or other Mummerette model.  We could then theme all the actions off having a partner!  I'll also drop Can I have another Volunteer off the card. That was a hangover from when it was a (0) Action so it could make a second attack. Now that it is a (1) action, it's not needed. I'll also drop the damage spread down to 2/3/4. I've also dropped HtK, not sure if this will make them too squishy though. Does this sound like 5ss?  Open Spoiler  Note: This is assuming THOGT becomes an Aura, otherwise it'll go back on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I honestly think that at this point they could be unconditionally significant. Indeed they do look like Coryphee light, but that's fine IMHO. Â The conditional significance is made much worse by the fact that we can only have 2 in the game and thus they need exorbitant resilience to be merit that. I do think it'd be simpler to keep them as is but lose insignificant and the associated ability. Â I do like your Haze Aura (it's definitely better than my own), but I just realized that if we do in fact do that there'd only be 3 models with the ability (unless we drop something from Mercury - which I don't think we want to do). And plus, Whut makes a good point in that who wants to deal with a terrifying 16 Teddy lategame? For that reason I am very okay with scrapping that idea. Â I also think that you have a good point that losing HtK would squish the Mummerettes up more than lowering their Df to 4 or 5. In such a vein, let's switch that. I think HtK could stay on but then we lower the Df to maybe 5 (for now)? Â I'm also thinking that THOGT looks pretty nice with the Horseman-style clause of "turn number minus one". I would like to test it out more though because I am worried about the TNs being too attainable from T1 to abour T3 under this new clause. Â ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Ya ill be able to get more games in in the next couple weeks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Awesome, I've done up some new cards, we should have them available in the very near future!  Kalki, I've added them to the Dropbox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I wanted the named Neverborn models to retain the Haze. I would like Lizzy to have it back if possible haha - that loss of ability only was to apply to the Mummerettes, the Flying Monkeys, and Mercury (as his fluff didn't merit it). Hope that's okay.  Additionally, in order to correct typos:  ~~~~~  Model/Upgrade: Mr. Cooper, et al (front) Ability/Action/Trigger: The Haze Only Gets Thicker Typo: add the current Turn number minus one to their TN  Model/Upgrade: Flying Monkey (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: Pick Up and... Splat! Typo: Pick Up and... Splat! (title)  Model/Upgrade: Flying Monkey (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: Puff of Smoke (Unholy Stench) Typo: immunities to Wp duels (including  Model/Upgrade: Baritone Lola (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: Don't Forget To Dance Typo: the Paralyzed Condition instead.  Model/Upgrade: Mercury (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: Ice, Ice, Baby! Typo: or gain the Paralyzed Condition.  Model/Upgrade: Mummerette (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: I Need A Partner! Typo: I Need A Partner!  Model/Upgrade: Mummerette (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: This is a Double Act! Typo: This is a Double Act!  Model/Upgrade: Circus Troop Ability/Action/Trigger: Semi-Reliable Typo: gain the following Ability: "Finish the Job: When this model is killed, it may place a Scheme Marker in base contact with itself before it is removed."  ~~~~~  Finally, I'm not sure I am a huge fan of Cooper both needing proximity to the Monkeys AND needing to expend an AP in order to get Finish the Job on the Monkeys. I like the idea of the Monkeys just having Finish the Job while in proximity, or just saying "Friendly Flying Monkey models within LoS of this model gain the following Ability:" as the preamble to either giving them Semi-Reliable or giving them Finish The Job. My justification would be that if Mr. Cooper can see the Monkeys the Monkeys should be hard at work.  Anyway, I am glad that we've got more discussion to be had! i will be pushing the agenda more tomorrow and perhaps I'll even finally get a game in myself before tomorrow is through!  ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Are the new cards up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Not just yet, as Da Git and I are presently looking to solve some things first. Namely, a TN buff, the re-addition of an ability to a model, and another shift to THOGT. Â ;D Â ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtuarus Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Kewl kewl i cant wait to try new stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 When are you going to get your next playtest in? We'll try to be done by then so you can see how they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015   Model/Upgrade: Mummerette (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: I Need A Partner! Typo: I Need A Partner!  Model/Upgrade: Mummerette (back) Ability/Action/Trigger: This is a Double Act! Typo: This is a Double Act!  ~Lil Kalki  Why does A Partner need to be capitalised but a Double Act doesn't? Really confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Why does A Partner need to be capitalised but a Double Act doesn't? Really confused! I think I made a typo there haha - also, good morning!  ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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