Mr. Cooper's Dark Carnival - Playtesting Sessions Week 2

[Da Git]

Hi all!

 

Kalkris's computer has gone a bit bung so that has left me to keep the show on the road!

 

Here's the design brief from Kalkris (post 1 of the last thread) PLEASE READ THIS FIRST IF YOU ARE NEW!

Open Spoiler

Okay, so: The Dark Carnival is coming out for GenCon, as a proxy crew for Colette's standard loadout (Colette, 3 Mechanical Doves, Cassandra, 2 Performers, and 2 Mannequins). We are getting a number of named models, themed after a circus troupe described in detail in the latest Wyrd Chronicles (images for the crew box are also in that issue). The Dark Carnival proxies as Colette, as mentioned above.

 

I am not satisfied with that alone.

 

What I have been tossing about as an idea both on this forum and on AWP is the idea of being amateur (or better!) devs and betatesters, all of us, and creating our own set of rules for Mr. Cooper and his Dark Carnival.

 

And that we did.

 

Now we are onto Stage 2 of this wonderful journey of ours: Playtesting. If you have been watching this space with great interest (or any interest at all, even), you probably have done so with the interest of playtesting this unofficial crew. That, or you probably just want to watch our process and progress. We finished the brainstorm rather early, and now it is the public's turn to give as much feedback as they desire.

 

Unfortunately, I got a reply from Aaron Darland about getting this crew ruleset into the Chronicles and he said that between people skimming the Chronicles for things, and people just plain not reading the Chronicles, it wouldn't reach a wide enough audience and those it would reach may accidentally take the crew as solicited and official. So, the Chronicles is out, but I'm still by all means down to do this! Hope you are too.

 

If you are comfortable working on a set of custom rules for casual games, and willing to make a constructive contribution, please feel free to join in on this great adventure.

 

~~~~~

 

DISCLAIMER: This project is not in any way supported or endorsed by Wyrd Games. I am not affiliated with Wyrd except by virtue of being a Henchman. Any games of Malifaux (Wyrd's game) involving this ruleset must be approved by all parties involved before being conducted. Official Wyrd events may not include this ruleset.

 

~~~~~

 

Credit thus far goes to:

Solicitor 6 (major idea contributor)

Da Git (major idea contributor)

Manic Mouse (major idea contributor)

Crush_Jansen (major idea contributor)

SpiralingCadaver (for providing stat card templating)

Phinn (idea contributor)

Dirial (idea contributor)

Fetid Strumpet (for recommending I contact SpiralingCadaver)

Patzer (idea contributor)

Victoria (idea contributor)

Bstorz (idea contributor)

Clockwork Top Hat (idea contributor)

Jafar (idea contributor)

Adran (idea contributor)

TimH (idea contributor)

and myself, as well as anyone who voted.

 

~~~~~

 

Models representing models:

 

Mr. Cooper (30mm) = Colette

Lola (30mm) = Cassandra

Flying Monkey (30mm) x3 = Mechanical Dove (x3)

Thin Lizzy (30mm) = Performer

Mercury (30mm) = Performer

Mummerette (30mm) x2 = Mannequin (x2)

 

Here's the playtest schedule

Open Spoiler

So, with the time we have, we will have 6 weeks for thematic, 6 for Arcanists and 6 for Neverborn. I want to split it like that alternating by week:

 

Week 1 (7/6-7/12) - Thematic initial - look over crew to start, changes can be made

Week 2 (7/13-7/19) - Arcanist initial - no changes until Neverborn initial ends - Wave 1

Week 3 (7/20-7/26) - Neverborn initial - changes applied at end - Wave 1

Week 4 (7/27-8/2)- Thematic #2 - look over crew with changes, changes can be made that do not override W1-3

Week 5 (8/3-8/9) - Break for GenCon recuperation

Week 6 (8/10-8/16) - Arcanist #2 - no changes until Neverborn initial ends - Wave 1

Week 7 (8/17-8/23) - Neverborn #2 - changes from W4-6 applied at end - Wave 1

Week 8 (8/24-8/30) - Thematic #3 - make sure nothing degenerate affects thematic crew

Week 9 (8/31-9/6) - Arcanist #3 - make sure nothing degenerate affects Arcanist faction - Wave 1

Week 10 (9/7-9/13) - Neverborn #3 - make sure nothing degenerate affects Neverborn faction - Wave 1

Week 11 (9/14-9/20) - Thematic #4 - Repeat Week 1

Week 12 (9/21-9/27) - Arcanist #4 - Repeat Week 2, add Wave 2

Week 13 (9/28-10/4) - Neverborn #4 - Repeat Week 3, add Wave 2

Week 14 (10/5-10/11) - Thematic #5 - Repeat Week 4

Week 15 (10/12-10/18) - Arcanist #5 - Repeat Week 6, add Wave 2

Week 16 (10/19-10/25) - Neverborn #5 - Repeat Week 7, add Wave 2

Week 17 (10/26-11/1) - Thematic #6 - Repeat Week 8

Week 18 (11/2-11/8) - Arcanist #6 - Repeat Week 9, Add Waves 2 & 3

Week 19 (11/9-11/15) - Neverborn #6 - Repeat Week 10, Add Waves 2 & 3

Week 20 (11/16-11/22) - Final - Done!

 

And finally, the cards!

Also this week is supposed to be Arcanists, but I feel there's been a fair few changes that we can still try to work on the thematic crew.  But if you can, can you also have a look at the Oddity upgrades with the Arcanists' Minions (please!).

 

Also, since some of us don't have computers, here's the jpgs!  (they're pretty big)

 

Important!!  New Cards as of 18/07

 

Files are here: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03002754694811323021

 

Or images here:

 

Mr. Cooper

Open Spoiler

 

Flying Monkeys

Open Spoiler

 

Baritone Lola

Open Spoiler

 

Mercury

Open Spoiler

 

Thin Lizzy

Open Spoiler

 

Mummerettes

Open Spoiler

 

Upgrades

Open Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This bares repeating!

DISCLAIMER: This project is not in any way supported or endorsed by Wyrd Games. I am not affiliated with Wyrd except by virtue of being an avid fan (Kalkris is a Henchman). Any games of Malifaux (Wyrd's game) involving this ruleset must be approved by all parties involved before being conducted. Official Wyrd events may not include this ruleset.

[Da Git]

Change log (although I've doubtless missed a few things!),

 

The Haze has been streamlined to make it less crappy at the start of the game without getting too much by the end.  What do you think?  Almost all of the TNs have been upped.

 

Mr. Cooper

The old Nothing's Free was super potent, wounds for suits, so that's been toned down.  He's also gotten a bit tougher with some extra wounds.

 

No More Mr. Nice Guy

1ss cheaper Lost the heal (so no more ridiculous combo with Unpaid Debts), but gained a Horror duel (more Simple Duels!), got a little weaker, but has built in Infect

 

Welcome to my Nightmare

dropped the conditions to +2

 

What is Freely Given

Can now only claim Soulstones from Masters and Henchmen (seemed fair)

 

Unpaid Debts

Heals 1 wound per Soulstone discarded

 

Flying Monkeys

Became cheaper for a start!  This is their last chance before they become Insignificant.  I've made it so they can all move up with Fly my Pretties! and then drop schemes.  I've also toned down G&D to a new action (similar effects, just not Master level!)

 

Lola

Seemed a little squishy, so I upped the wounds by 1 and added the Upgrade.  Death of a penguin now triggers off Lola's Death (matches the name now).

 

Mercury

1ss cheaper.  Added A kind of Magic to give him some synergy with the crew.  I Want to Break Free now triggers off being damaged.  Lowered the Who Want's to live forever penalty to -1

 

Thin Lizzy

1ss cheaper. Lure dropped to Ca6

 

Mummerettes

1ss cheaper, lots of changes!

 

 

See what you think, are there any actions that you deem pointless?  Does Mr. Cooper do enough (especially without No More Mr. Nice Guy)?  Are the Monkeys totem-y enough (if not, how can we make them more totem-y?)?  How are the TNs, too much?

[Kalkris]

Hey Da Git,

While I can post (as infrequently as I may be able to), could I ask that you put up this week's jpgs for people to see and make use of? Thanks!

And yeah, sad thing is that I'm posting from an iPod it's kind of embarrassing lmao - keep me posted, though, please!

~Lil Kalki

[asrian]

I like the look of it (First time reading over things), and am interested where it goes from here. 

Two things immediately stood out to me though. 

1 - Mummerette: Tactical Action, "Follow Up Act". It's a 1AP action to get an accomplice. I've only read over these, not tried them out, but I'm curious what the point of it is, as I can usually always find things to do with my 2 AP on any model other than sacrificing 1 to make someone else go. If it were a 0AP I could see it. 

2 - Baritone Lisa: Tactical Action Trigger, "Sings Like a Belladonna." It would make more sense to me if this was a Lure + self-push in any direction (like Beckoners) and triggered the Projected Voice if not engaged (due to the "Sings" name), rather than a potential Belly Flop, but that's just me.
 

[Da Git]

Nice of you to pop in Asrian!

 

I like those suggestions a lot! Expect to see some (or all!) of it stolen!

[Whut]

The upgrades have a restriction of "Oddity". Is this left over from a characteristic previously available? I don't see anyone with that characteristic.

EDIT:Nevermind, I figured it out

Also the monkey balance seems a bit difficult from what you say. You don't want to give them insignificant, but feel you may have no choice. If forced to make them insignificant, could something like this work:

Give them insignificant. And...

Give them an action like:

(2) Ca 6/TN 12/Rg 3 Target other flying monkey takes a (1) Interact action, ignoring insignificant. If there are two flying monkeys within (Pulse)3", this action receives +2 Ca.

(Mask Trigger) After succeeding, take this action again against a different target. This action cannot declare triggers and suffers -4 Ca.

This takes away their incredible scheming power, but allows them to still do SOME scheming when grouped up. It works perfectly with their (2) group flight action, and becomes easier when all three are together. It also allows some counterplay, as killing one monkey makes this action significantly worse, and killing two makes it useless. It requires a 6 normally, a 4 when all three are together, and the extra from the trigger is going to need an 8 (unless the first monkey somehow killed itself by interacting?)

[Kalkris]

That idea has merit and could stand to be tested. I think we should use that as the next step before full insignificance if that ends up the option. I'm totally okay without them interacting at all.

Maybe if the action causes the flying monkey to make a low (read: maybe an 8 plus haze) horror duel to make the interact? That at least gives it a risk to take the action, a la Lucius.

~Lil Kalki (still via iPod )

[Whut]

I actually thought of exactly that, but I believe that 1) it doesn't make much sense fluff wise, 2) that would be a big drain on the hand (to cast, then horror duel), and 3) the action has enough restrictions as is:

They have to use (2) AP to usually get a single (1) interact, or 2 (1) interacts with 1 or 2 cards used from your hand.

They cannot make (2) interacts at all.

They have to stay in a pack.

If one dies, it becomes much harder.

If two die, it becomes useless.

[Kalkris]

That's fair but I figure it can be fluffy to give a horror-induced interact. Call it something like Coerce , or Intimidating Grin or something, since monkeys grin to showcase a threat. I was also thinking no cast on that action as the horror duel is a big enough drain. Maybe even make it so that the horror duel can't be cheated? Too big of a risk maybe?

I'd word that action like this (tactical):

(2) Intimidating Grin: Target other friendly Flying Monkey model within 6" takes a TN 7 Horror Duel. This Duel gets :+ for each other friendly Flying Monkey model, other than this model, within 3". If it succeeds, it places a Scheme Marker in base contact with itself.

Wordy, yes. OP, no. UP, up for debate lol

Since I cannot see the cards presently, what is the wp of a monkey?

What would you call that (2) action that makes the monkey interact? I feel like the fluff behind forcing another model to do something is the same fluff I was working behind.

~Lil Kalki

[Whut]

I think that what you just posted is fine. A tad risky because Monkeys are WP3, and if they get paralyzed that is a huge hit to their scheming for the rest of the game (actually... if it remains that they can be affected by FLY! even when paralyzed, right now it's somewhat pointless to fail the test, they just lose 5 inches of movement next turn)

[Da Git]

Hey Kalki, I've put the pictures in spoilers in the first post.  Can you see them (they work on my phone so hopefully they work on an ipod too...)?

 

I'm actually thinking of going a completely different spin with the monkeys.  After reading Manic Mouse's post, about the monkeys having the feel of being their own model and not a totem, I've come up with this:

Remove Barrelling (I've changed the cards, don't worry!) Charge & The Haze only grows thicker with the following ability:

Monkeying Around: Enemy models engaged with one or more flying monkeys suffer -1 Wp.

 

As for the whole interact stuff, how about this for something completely different!

Make them insignificant and instead of placing schemes, they can remove them! 

They gain the following action:

(1) A New Toy to Play With!: Discard one card to discard one scheme marker within 3.

[Whut]

I'd say that's even more powerful. At least give them a restriction of "not engaged," or make it a (2) action forcing them to work together.

Also I believe that -1 WP is overkill, considering most of the crew's tests will be 13-14 by turn 3 already. It will (already might) turn into a brewmaster situation where the opponent might receive a NPE.

[Kalkris]

I like the scheme marker removal. Can we make it include corpses and scrap though? That would be delightfully morbid.

As for Pick up and Splat, is the damage capped at 3, or is the ht difference capped at 3? The issue is that capping ht at 3 means it'll deal an even 3 each time it hits for a ht of more than 2 and it'll deal 0 for ht 2 or 1 due to the rules about falling damage. I think it was a better call with G&D, but then again, dealing an even 3 is fine for a peon totem anyway.

I also think that I want Barreling Monkeys and the Haze to stay, because the aura you mention is just a strictly weaker version of the Daydream aura. We don't need that extra (2) action that whut and I were working on above, but I still like Barreling Monkeys. Haha

I messaged you about Cooper specifically, Da Git. Here's hoping you're still awake and read it haha

~Lil Kalki

[Da Git]

Ahh ok.  It should be the damage is capped at 3, otherwise what if we just make it a 1/2/3 damage flip?  Basically I don't think being able deal 6 damage is a good idea for a 3ss model.

 

Another option for Interacts.  Still gains insignificant.

(0) Semi-reliable: This model gains the following Condition until the end of the turn: Finish the Job: When this model i killed, it may place a Scheme Marker in base contact with itself before it is killed.

 

Is there anything wrong with what we have now? It can still interact, just not if it was moved by another monkey.  (Kalki, I PM'd you the card)

[Kalkris]

We could have a 1/2/3 damage flip and still have the resist be ht, but I think a straight 3 would be fun too, since its off of a (0) and isn't a terribly powerful action against most models.

Semi-reliable with Insignificant sounds fair. We'd need to test it although I like that it keeps the schemes in check.

~Lil Kalki

[Kalkris]

Also, a typo I found (excusing the lack of a proper format; my computer is better for this):

Model: Thin Lizzy

Ability: Don't Mind Me:

Typo: "Me" in name should be capitalized

[Kalkris]

Got my computer up and running again! It's like some sort of undead thing!

 

Also, I have been working to put Mr. Cooper into the Akinator website (with general luck - he guessed it after the 5th try, although it was more like 4 since I had to put him in there after the first try). Just for shiggles. :3

 

It seems to me that we may have an update by tomorrow, too, so keep fingers crossed. Da Git is working on them presently I believe, and wanted to get them publicized early so we have him to thank for that. Thank you, Da Git!

 

~Lil Kalki

[Da Git]

What is the Akinator website?

 

I've finished the updates & put them on Dropbox, if they'll all good, I'll release them to the public!

[Kalkris]

Oh, Akinator is basically a character-based 20 questions program. It's cute but it's also known for being scarily accurate (at least at times).

 

And very good! I will give them a look.

 

~Lil Kalki

[Da Git]

Important!!

The cards in the first post have been updated.  Here is a list of the changes:

 

 

Mr. Cooper – We felt that he simply wasn’t controlling enough.  He did very weak damage, but little else.  Now he can buff, de-buff, destroy synergies, move things around and block off areas of the board.  Just like the ringmaster should!

• Silken Scarf has been rewritten
• Blow Smoke has become a Tactical Action & rewritten
• May I Direct your Attention replaced with Wouldn’t Recognise His Own Son.

 

Flying Monkeys – Reduced their Scheme abilities, also changed Pick Up and …Splat into a damage track.

• Added Insignificant
• Added Semi-Reliable
• Rewrote Pick Up and… Splat!

 

Lola – Upped her damage a bit and put in Asrian’s suggestion.

• Sing’s like a Belladonna changed to taking the Projected Voice Action
• Changed both damage tracks

 

Mercury – Just fixed Typos!

 

Thin Lizzy – Just fixed Typos!

 

Mummerettes

• Made Follow Up Act a (0) as per Asrian’s suggestion.  Upped the TN to compensate.

 

Upgrades – Changed to fit the “New” Mr. Cooper

• Circus Troop added

 

[Kalkris]

So, with my inundation via demos, I could not actually get a playtest game in today. However, i may be able to get someone to do it tomorrow - although it'll be remotely haha

 

When will *I* get to use Mr. Cooper's Dark Carnival?!?!!!??!!?? whine whine whaaaah whaaaah whaaaaaaaaaaaaah.... lmao

 

~Lil Kalki

[Kalkris]

So, considering the mummerettes' masks of joy and sorrow ability (and that I still need to test things myself hahaha), I daresay the mummerettes are still too resilient. Perhaps we could lower their Df by 1? They do often have positives to their resist flips... Lol

~Lil Kalki

[Da Git]

So, considering the mummerettes' masks of joy and sorrow ability (and that I still need to test things myself hahaha), I daresay the mummerettes are still too resilient. Perhaps we could lower their Df by 1? They do often have positives to their resist flips... Lol

~Lil Kalki

 

At the moment, There's not too much I'd like to do with the list until we get some games in...  I think you're right in that eventually we will drop the Df by 1.  But as the Coryphee are Df6, with a permanent + to Df & Wp, I'd like to see how this goes first.

[asrian]

Well, if either of you play Vassal games, I'd be willing to be a guinea pig opponent for a test game or two. 

[Kalkris]

Reasonable. Also my prospective playtesters had to postpone for some time later this week

 

I really need to get in one of my own playtests in... I have Vassal, but I really don't know how to use it with the screen resolution I have lol - I could, but it'd be a bit of a pain.

 

If I must, though, I'm cool with that. I am living in the EST time zone fyi

 

~Lil Kalki