New to the game new to The Dreamer

[Darkseer]

'Ello chaps,

 

I'm new to the game and new to the Dreamer.

I have him as my second crew. Primary crew is Lady Justice.

 

Here's all the models I have, after following the PullMyFinger advice and reading a few army lists.

 

Dreamer

Lord Chompy Bits

Coppelius

3 Alps

3 Day Dreams

2 Insidious Madness

2 Stitched Together

Teddy

Miss Ery

 

The thing is... I hear the Dreamer can be run as a Summoner or some kind of Chompy Bits beat stick.

Lots of people seem to run him as a summoner from what I can see.

I guess I really want to know the difference between these two playing styles for him, is summoner is better - and if so, how many more models I need to buy!

 

Any help appreciated.

 

 

[Dirial]

Some people argue that Summoner-Dreamer is better than Chompy-Dreamer. The main factor is that style's greater flexibilty, as well as the inherent advantage in some Strategies like Reconnoitre where summoners are generally very strong.

 

The main difference is upgrade choice: Dreams of Pain is the summoning one, while Restless Dreams makes Chompy more effective.

 

For the latter, Dreamer tends to bring up his Waking Condition as fast as possible to deploy Chompy right into the opponent's crew. It's mostly (mostly) irrelevant what crew this Dreamer brings, as the Daydreams support Chompy adequately, and Dreamer won't be on the table much. It's also way more beginner friendly.

 

For the former style, Dreamer tends to keep his Waking in check to heal his summons. He keeps a little more distance and sends Nightmares after key models or to key areas. His main summons are Stitched (lots of Stitched) and Insidious Madness. He can also summon Coppelius, Lilitu (and Lelu, theoretically) and Teddy (if he brought Tannen). He also likes to run a Weaver Widow, to top off the summoning.

 

What would you need to run the summoner style? More Insidious Madness, and more Stitched (I hear 5-8 is good number). Lilitu. Mr. Tannen. Perhaps Widow Weaver.

What would you need to run the Chompy style? Whatever you want, basically.

[Darkseer]

Damn, the summoner style sounds expensive!

I'm not the subtlest of players, so would definitely favour the Chompy style with Restless Dreams.4

Thanks for the help

[Patzer]

Summoners always need more models. I agree with Diral that you will mainly summon Madnesses and Stitched (if you will do fine with another blister of them really). Lilitu is a great summon too for Interference and Deliver a Message.

 

Most players seem to like summoning Dreamer more, but don't sleep on the Chompy path! Its very, very, good. In my experience, summoning Dreamer is in a sense more forgiving, but Chompy path Dreamer have more potential. There is a Before We Begin episode where they talk about Chompy Dreamer in depth, give it a listen!

[thegoatgod_pan]

Lilitu and Lelu are great together. I often bring Lilitu anyway for the strong lure, but with Dreamer, you can just summon both. They gain each others conditions and healing, meaning that between their regen 1 and the dreamer, activating both will heal the other and so you end up with fully healed models by turn 2 or three, also Lilitu's 1 AP ability to gain   on all duels extends to lelu and Lelu's slowness is easily repaired by Daydream pushing. 

[D_acolyte]

I tend to keep my summoning 1 or two models a turn and my waking low at the beginning of the game. I use dream of pain and otherworldly so I accomplice the model I summon, healing it a bit before the enemy can kill the model. For early summoning I will buy 2 day dreams, use one to push things and then sacrifice it so I get a + mask to my casting then late in the turn I will stone a crow and summon something. My early game summon is often Lelu and I use him as a missile, get him right up in base to base with the enemy to maximize black blood damage. If they kill him they will be that much closer to death and if they do not he will go vampire on them, most cases he lives another 2 turns as my enemy figures out what to do with him.

Your nightmare amount looks good, you just need the twins. I would recommend getting some fast scheme runners and non nightmare models into the mix, I start the game with 4 nightmares and two of them are daydreams in my summoning build. I often have slurids, illuminated, terror tots or there young version on the side to do schemes or prevent my opponent schemes.

[Dimitri]

D_acolyte is speaking the truth. I want to add as a personal thing that i prefer waldgeist over illuminated or silurids. I play very defensive and passive so i utilise them better. I also want to say that since you play neverborn a doppelganger is only 7ss for insane utility. Insane... seriously... insane utility.

[Dimitri]

PS: isane utility. I mean it is rude how insane doppelganger's utility is. She can make a grown up man stare at your eyes and cry. She is difficult to use though and the more you play the more you rate her. 

[Dimitri]

Aaaaaah. Man i forgot!!! Find a third insidious madness or pay 12 pounds and buy the box. In the most games i take the summoning route, I want to summon the third one. I dont summon more than 1 or 2 stitched though. I rate them really high but i rate higher the speed and the utility of everything else. If I want to kill stuff I play restless dreams. If i want to run schemes i play dreams of pain, and stitched cannot run schemes plus one of them can couse problems, 4 of them is a wast of ap. Nothing has 24 wd.... they kill annoying  spammers ressers though. Finally you will listen to people trash talk lelu. They are correct but ignore them. There are situations that you should summon him. He is expensive and inefficient for 7ss. For free? For an 11 and 1ap? Expecially if summoning him is gonna heal his beloved sister. I dont summon him every game but every 2 or 3 games i do and i dont regret it. I also recommend widow weaver. She is situational but can be a bane for many lists like a heavy construct arcanist list. When i take the restless dreams upgrade i lose because i cant play offensive... so listen to someone else advice on this. XD.

[chryspainthemum]

I'm a huge fan of mctavish + 2 waldgeists + a doppelganger as the staring point. The main counter to summoning dreamer is to pressure schemes/kills early, but double waldgeists in their zone really slows the enemy crew down and let's you get comfortable with your summoning engine. Mctavish's gun is good normally but absolutely unfair when he's at shoot 8. And he's the best dude to carry Hexed Among You bar none. Doppel because copying that gun works out fairly well.

[Wee Little Puppet Man]

I cannot imagine needing more than 3 insidious madnesses. Also, I've played summoning dreamer without stitched and I fared well. I would expect 3 to be more than enough. Of course, if you had more, you could use them. But I don't think it is true that you need more to play summoning dreamer. I guess it depends on every meta, though.

[RobertSirc]

7 hours ago, Wee Little Puppet Man said:

I cannot imagine needing more than 3 insidious madnesses. Also, I've played summoning dreamer without stitched and I fared well. I would expect 3 to be more than enough. Of course, if you had more, you could use them. But I don't think it is true that you need more to play summoning dreamer. I guess it depends on every meta, though.

They are a rare 3. One pack is fine. 

[Dimitri]

On 18/06/2016 at 7:08 PM, Wee Little Puppet Man said:

I cannot imagine needing more than 3 insidious madnesses. Also, I've played summoning dreamer without stitched and I fared well. I would expect 3 to be more than enough. Of course, if you had more, you could use them. But I don't think it is true that you need more to play summoning dreamer. I guess it depends on every meta, though.

Insidious are rare 3

[D_acolyte]

Dreamer also work well with any minions, I tend to run him with black blood models or Waldergiest.

[orkdork]

Chompy dreamer is great. I have been playing both, and I think Chompy dreamer is considerably more fun.

You're still flooding the table with dudes, they're just little dudes (daydreams and alps). But then you get to bring out the big guy, and with melee expert, he's 50% more chompy

I have been running the following list and finding it actually a bit stronger than I want. I intended it to be a "casual" list, because the internets typically tell you Chompy dreamer isn't top tier (might not be), and because I didn't spam stitched/illuminated which the internets also tell you are strong (they are), but I found after a couple games that this list is really darn effective!

 

Dreamer, Restless Dreams, Tantrum, Aether Connection optional

Teddy, On Dreaming Wings or Retribution's Eye

Coppy

Lilitu

Doppel

Stitched

Madness

 

The daydreams' -1 WP aura becomes quite huge. You have so much terrifying/manipulative that it is really easy for opponents to find themselves struggling to hit back.

I find Lilitu is especially good in Chompy dreamer because she can pull dreamer out of sticky spots (she's in most every one of my NB crews as it is, since I freakin' love Lure and 4" engagement).

Teddy is also just a monster in this crew. If he is the only major threat, he gets dropped fast. But with Chompy around, Teddy can avoid getting focused (and he loves soaking just a few damage so that he can heal it). I play safe with him turn 1, give him fast before he activates on turn 2, and hold him until late in turn 2. Often, your opponent will have to respond to Chompy, leaving Teddy free to get led by daydreams up to where he can do something nasty like walk + flurry.

Alternatively, if you can land the Lures (Lilitu + doppel), you use Teddy to go "retrieve" the lured target, using his pushes to move him back toward your crew where he can be safe. Opponents will obviously see this, however, so if they have a way to avoid it, they will. If they don't, they're in trouble (a crew without Lure answers won't tend to get very far).

With Chompy, don't hesistate to use a soulstone to keep him up if he hasn't activated yet. Spending 1-2 SS for prevention to ensure he gets to do his thing is definitely worthwhile.

Surrounded by Nightmares can become huge in this crew as well. Really quite easy to land a 5dmg shot with it against something at -2 Wp that has to discard to cheat! It's not your go-to move, but it will present itself more often than you might think because you play your daydreams so aggressively: they need to be upfield to protect dreamer when he comes back and since you summon so many, you can afford to lose them.

Finally, don't sleep on Alps. Daydreams are almost always better (they are amazing), but once you have the WP-lockdown starting (say 2 daydreams and a madness), an Alp can really put the clamps on.