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The finer points of the Nurse's Hallucinogens


The Zinc Lich

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So I was sitting around and mashing models together in my head, as I tend to do, and I was wondering about the Nurse's Hallucinogens. It states that a model's Ml actions deal +2 damage, which is simple enough, I suppose. The question is, how does this interact with Ml actions that don't result in traditional damage flips?

 

Let's say Taelor gets medicated, and uses Hammer Fall. The primary target suffers 5/6/8 damage and then everything nearby takes a Df test. Do the models that fail that test take 3 damage, or 5 damage?

 

A Low River Monk gains Hallucinogens and hits someone with Over the Pebbles. Does the target still take no damage, or does it take a total of 2 purely from the hallucinogens?

 

A Guild Guardian somehow ends up on drugs and misses a shield attack. It gets the Shield Press trigger though, so it deals either 1 damage or 3 damage, depending on the Hallucinogens ruling. Does the damage from a trigger count as being caused by the action itself, or is it a separate instance?

 

Although technically not a question about hallucinogens, there is another thing I'm wondering about that is related to that last question. Let's say that Abuela Ortega fires her shotgun at a Rider and uses the Slug trigger. Does the Rider's defensive trigger reduce the damage from the attack but not the trigger, from the total damage dealt by the attack, or from the attack and the trigger separately?

 

Deep thoughts.

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The way I read it, because it is written as "+2 damage", as opposed to "2 damage in addition to all other effects", if the Ml actions causes damage it deals another 2 in addition, but things like triggers or Ml actions which don't deal damage arent affected. I'm pretty on the fence about Hammerfall's interaction, though.

 

~Lil Kalki

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I believe that anything that does damage does 2 more, whether it's damage from the attack or any trigger.

 

However, anything that doesn't do damage still doesn't do damage.

You think the trigger is part of the attack here? I thought that triggers were separate from actions in a respect like this...

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I don't think you can decouple Actions and Triggers from each other - the Trigger is still part of the Action, so it should be modified by anything that affects the Action (Hallucinogens, Incorporeal, Df triggers, etc).

My answers would be:

Taelor: Models that fail the test take 5 damage.

Low River Monk: The attack inflicts no damage, so there can be no additional damage.

Guardian: The Shield Press inflicts 3 damage.

Slug vs Rider: Reduce the damage from the attack and the trigger separately.

Nurses have always been one of the most starkly rules-distorting models in the game - they make things weird. There are lots of rules that make perfect sense until they come into contact with a Nurse.

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You think the trigger is part of the attack here? I thought that triggers were separate from actions in a respect like this...

Triggers a part of the action, for sure.

I agree with Kadeton's answers, although I'm on the fence about thd Riders. A, Slug, my favorite trigger....

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I believe RAI it's probably supposed to support Ferossa's pov, unless Wyrd likes making filthy things filthier.

 

Oh, they do. They do.

 

It probably would have said damage flips if it meant them, but now I'm about 55-45 on the matter....

 

Damage flips can be part of triggers and abilities, though. Triggers are also often part of Ml actions. It's complicated, and restricting it to damage flips wouldn't make it much less complicated.

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Fees seems like a clearly separate issue, for the reason presented in that thread: stacking Conditions use '+' to indicate the stacking variable. There is no way to show that Fees +4 inflicts 4 damage (for example) except by using a '+' in the Condition's description.

This isn't the same, because Hallucinogens is not a stacking Condition. The '+' in this context can only mean that the damage is in addition to an existing source of damage.

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Condition A causes +1 damage and people have no issue with it adding damage to no damage. 

Condition B causes +2 damage and people take issue with it adding damage to no damage. 

 

The fact that one stacks is the reason for it doesn't substantially change the fact that the mechanic we're worried about is worded the same. 

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Kind of. I'd describe it as:

Condition A has a variable value, and does damage equal to that variable when an event occurs.

Condition B modifies the damage element of an Action. If there isn't a damage element, it can't be modified.

The fact that the notation of those Conditions is superficially similar doesn't change the fact that they're fundamentally different.

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