Horror Lists

[Nex81]

Hello all Newly converted Rezzer, i Had a few questions i was hopping yall could help with. Is a Seamus Terrifying list viable?Any recomendations for a good set up? useing Hanged to strip the immunity and keep forceing duels? Also with The Hanged, i might be misunderstanding things but if you pass a horror duel generated off their attack, youre now immune correct?(baring something stripping that immunity?) Thanks!

[MasterDisaster]

Making use of a list to specifically exploit Terrifying is generally advised against. It's just too unreliable. Building an effective list that works to your advantage in terms of schemes and strategy that also happens to have a bonus in the form of terrifying is a better way to go. Terror lists are often a bit of a trap.

[Kadeton]

To add to the above, I'd also suggest that they're pretty boring to play and, even when effective, they make the game tedious for both players. If you can make Horror duels difficult to impossible to pass (certainly possible with combinations of models) the result you get from it is an opponent who can't do anything, and probably won't want to play you again.

And of course, there's always the possibility that you'll have to play against Arcanists, and the Frozen Heart models will run over you like a truck.

The Terror trap is sort of part of a bigger trap, which is designing lists with lots of moving parts that combine to create a gimmick - every gimmick has a counter, and if you run into it, your gimmick list will lose. It's a much better strategy to build your list according to the strategies and schemes of the scenario at hand.

[fengor]

Presently the only matchup where I even consider taking models for their Terrifying is when i play against gremlins.

 

apart from that I find it not reliable enough. Nice Bonus if my opponent has to cheat now and then but nothing i would plan on

[Sholto]

I often run Horror Molly crews, and these have lots of Terrifying, usually quite high. I also often take Hanged. The Terrifying is not the purpose of the crew build, but it is a useful additional tool in the toolbox. As the Turn goes on your models with Terrifying become more and more secure.

 

Also, as an aside, sticking Burt Jebsen within 2" of a Hanged is hilarious

[Nex81]

ahhh, gotcha, i figured it would end up being a trap. Also with the hanged am i misunderrstanding horror duel immunity? if they hit something with a horror duel thats outside their bubble is it now immune?

[fengor]

Outside their bubble normal horror rules apply. So yes, after a model passes a horror duel against a figure it is now immune for the rest of the turn/activation (not sure which) from terrifying checks against that specific miniature

[Nex81]

so attacking twice with a hanged doesnt do anything? since thier trigger forces horror duels? little confused over that.

[Fetid Strumpet]

That's correct, if you are using the ranged attack. The Melee attack still works, presumably because your target will be inside your Aura. I tend to find that the Basic Operating instructions of the hanged go:

 

1) Am I in danger of getting wiped off the board because I'm Fragile?

    a) Take a walk action to move to safety, the revisit Question 1.

    Use Whisper on a model close by.

    c) If no target is available, walk to a more advantageous position, or take an interact action.

 

2) If Not in danger, and in advantageous position.

    a) Use Whisper on best target close by.

    Use Ranged attack on best target close by.

 

Their fragility, lack of decent damage against anything but fully healed high value targets, and in particular ones that don't use SS, and targets only having to pass their particular horror duels once while at range mean I rarely hire the hanged as I've never found them to be a good investment for 9SS. Summoning them on the other hand is golden, and should be done whenever the opportunity is advantageous.

[Morgue]

Naysayers.

 

Horror lists are completely viable, but require you to really have a firm understanding of positioning, and are very reliant on a single model; The Hanged.

 

Because of Seamus' insane engagement range and the Rotten Belle's insane Lure Range, and the incredibly reliable protection of the Crooligan (As well as Creepy) you won't really have a hard time getting your bubble to your opponent, safely and reliably, regardless of what theoryfauxers say.

 

I suggest trying out a horror list on your own before you get talked out of it.

 

Keep in mind though, a well-oiled Horror crew is incredibly unfun to play against. You can create an enviroment where any easily-targeted models are easily recreated, where any failed movement action leads to Paralyzed, and where nearly all of Seamus' heavy hitters are both hugely offensive, and nearly untouchable.

 

The basic mechanics of a Horror List are

 

1.) the Hanged's Inevitable Terror (I think that's what its callled) that removes any immunity to Horror Duels, even the immunity granted by succeeding in a Horror Duel, 

 

2.) Seamus as your engager with his Spectacular Infamy upgrade. This makes his Terrifying effectively Terror 14. Leap him near / on top of the enemy's sniper type models. With them locked up,

 

3.) Rotten Belles lure in the runners. If you've got Sybelle, Bleeder Lash + Not to Banged Up makes your crew a flytrap. The models are pulled in at a greater walk than they can leave with, and once you get them into your horror bubble, they're totally screwed.

 

4.) Crooligans for The Mist primarily, and Creepy secondarily. The Mist gives your crew a greater chance to resist the snipers that can undo you crew until Seamus can wipe them up.

 

5.) Bring at least 1 heavy hitter with Terrifying, my personal favorite is the Dead Rider, but the Rogue Necromancy or Killjoy work well.  In smaller games, (35 or less) the hitter isn't as important.

 

The reason I prefer the Dead Rider is because of his Drag Along. You can engage a target, inflict decent damage, and then pull them into your bubble. 

 

Your absolute minimum point investment is around 15, 9 for a Hanged, 4 for a Crooligan, 2 for Seamus' spec infamy. 

 

It can be tricky to learn at first, but once you understand the basic themes of a Horror list, they are devastating. Don't let the circular logic of this forum dissuade you from playing how you want.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I agree you should play what you want, I disagree horror is viable, but as Morgue says you should find out for yourself.

Even if you get it working, never play a terror list against arcanists unless you know for 100% certain you won't play against raspy. It doesn't matter if you remove their immunity to horror as they are also immune to the condition caused from failing a horror duel. And the plethora of Ca attacks will shred the pitifully fragile hanged in the blink of an eye.

[SpiralngCadavr]

On Gremlins and low WP, if a canny Gremlin player knows/ suspects you'll take WP shenanigans, Liquid Bravery and Bayou Two-Card makes Gremlins surprisingly brave- in my very limited experience as a Gremlin player, I feel like it's a very strong option vs. Neverborn for instance, and expect the same would be true against Ressers to a lesser degree.

 

Of course, a gremlin player won't necessarily know what they're facing, but it's something worth considering.

 

From the perspective of a horror player, I've never gotten a ton of use out of it- it's more often than not just one more layer of defense that can burn a player's hand...

[moxypoo]

In my experience, Horror Lists can work well provided they're not solely reliant on preventing the opponent from doing anything.  As long as you have the models available to complete you strategy/schemes you should do fine.

 

If you create a Horror list with the expectation that your opponent's models will be perpetually paralyzed, I think you might be disappointed.  However, if you have the mentality that frequent Horror duels will drain your opponent's hand and provide disincentive to attack your models, then you'll probably be pleased!  Most players won't risk attacking a Terrifying model unless they have a card in hand that allows them to pass the Horror duel, so combining lots of Horror duels with discard effects can be strong. As long as you consider Terrifying as more of a card drain ability, you can certainly have success with Horror lists.

 

I'm basing this on experience with some Neverborn masters and messing around with Jack Daw Horror lists.

[Fetid Strumpet]

That's my point. If you build a terror list it should be an incidental side effect of assembling a crew that works well together, that just happen to have terror or manipulative, manipulative, in my opinion and experience, being often the stronger ability.

Taking a model because it has terror is a trap.

Taking sybelle, because she synergizes with belles, and yin, who synergizes with sybelle, and Seamus, and they all happen to have terror is a good idea.

[moxypoo]

That's my point.

I have to admit that I just skimmed the thread before posting.  Apologies for reiterating your point!