Dassenkop Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 I was playing a solo game to learn the ropes of the game and doing so ran into the following situation and wondered whether the sequence was right. A terrot tot attacked Pandora with his Blackened Claws in an opposed duel. Pandora responded with Expose Fears, turning the attack into a Wp duel for her. The terror tot did not draw the right cards and lost the attack. Pandora responded with Fading Memory, since she won the opposed Wp duel, and immediatly pushed herself a few inches away from the terror tot. I think the latest Q&A supports this sequence. The terror tot still within the 6 inch Misery aura of Pandora than suffered another 1 damage. Since Pandora was already push away beyond 1 pulse the Black Blood ability from the terror tot did not hurt her. The tide then shifted sides and it was Pandaro's turn to activate. Pandora activated Inflict succesfully and the terror suffered 1 damage and Pandora's Misery did another 1 damage. After receiving the 2 damage the terrot tot dished out Black Blood once but since Pandora wasn't within 1 pulse of the tot it had no effect. Also Fading Memory did not activate as Inflict is not an opposed duel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Note that the Tot doesn't suffer damage from Misery when Pandora uses Wp, only when itself uses Wp. Thus, Pandora defending against its attacks does nothing to the Tot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Fading memory only happens when Pandora uses her OWN Willpower and wins. Misery only hurts a model when it uses its OWN Willpower and loses. You got most of it right, but remember those two key sentences and you'll be able to interpret any situation correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dassenkop Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Thx. guys, I'm afraid that I'm having to learn most of the game in isolation so these comments are really helpful. After your comments and reading (and trying to grasp ) every individual word I noted that Expose Fears also mentions 'This model considers the duel a Wp duel'. In my solo test game I read over this resulting in both models engaged in a Wp duel making Pandora a bid overpowered vs the Tot's as she ate away the Tot's health points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerstyle Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Pandora activated Inflict succesfully and the terror suffered 1 damage and Pandora's Misery did another 1 damage. After receiving the 2 damage the terrot tot dished out Black Blood once but since Pandora wasn't within 1 pulse of the tot it had no effect. Also Fading Memory did not activate as Inflict is not an opposed duel. The Terror Tot should have dished out Black Blood twice in this case, not once (it obviously didn't matter in your example but for future reference). It took 1 Dg from Inflict -> Black Blood triggers -> Take one damage from Misery -> Black Blood triggers. Misery takes affect after resolving the current action, i.e. after they've taken the wound from Inflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If the Tot attacks Pandora and she is using her WP to defend and he misses Pandora can use Fading Memory to scoot away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thx. guys, I'm afraid that I'm having to learn most of the game in isolation so these comments are really helpful. After your comments and reading (and trying to grasp ) every individual word I noted that Expose Fears also mentions 'This model considers the duel a Wp duel'. In my solo test game I read over this resulting in both models engaged in a Wp duel making Pandora a bid overpowered vs the Tot's as she ate away the Tot's health points. As Others say, Pandora can replace Df Duel to Wp Duel by Fading Memory and Misery work in Wp Duel, but they are different. Because Attacker doesn't use Wp Stat, so it is not Wp Duel to him/her. It is Attack Stat(For Example, Ml) Duel to Attacker. So Misery doesn't work when Pandora is attacked. Simply, "Duel Stat Types" article in Rulebook says about this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dassenkop Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thx. Nical. I was planning to go through the Duel Stat Types article once more and in the meantime took the Pullmyfinger article on Pandora. I have to admit its still mind boggling for me so will probably be back with more questions once I've find time to read all the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Pandora's very tricky. I'm in the process of learning all of her shenanigans lately as well. I think you'll find no Neverborn master is as straight forward as some of the other Factions "beginner" masters like Perdita, Seamus or Lady Justice. So far every one of the Neverborn seems to rely on trickery to stay alive and manipulate the board. I know that Zoraida is giving me the same headache. I've been trying to gather all my notes to write a blog post about her, but I need more games to learn all the things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Mrbedlam, I had a lot of problems (and dislike) for Zoraida when I started using her (after having played: Pandora -> Lynch -> Lilith). I finally started having success when I: A - Stuck to just her core swampfiends instead of using other models (I think, inpart, due to how good silurids and waldgeist are) and then branched out, & B - Started using obeys more on my own guys instead of constantly trying to obey the enemy models (up until then I'd never really used control masters and didn't appreciate their ability to garner more work out of my own crew's models vs just manipulating the enemy models). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Lucius can be looked as simplest neverborn master for Newbies. (not 'is', just 'can be') Because Lucius can use Guardsmen-oriented Crew. This crew has enough range weapons like other factions and its main tactic looks like simple and useful. Shoot Opponents till they die. But this crew's biggest problem is newbies can't learn How 'Usual' Neverborn Crew works. They just learn How Guardsmen Crew works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm starting to think that most Masters need a core group of models they pal around with and then a pool of circumstantial models that come in handy during various strategies, schemes and opposing factions. For me personally, the Pandora core is The Queen of Misery herself, Primordial Magic, Candy, 1 or 2 Sorrow, and a Beckoner. From there I add Scheme Runners (tots or silurids), Big Beaters (Barbarous, Bad Juju, Kade and Teddy), and Tar Pits (Depleted and Waldgeists) as needed. I realize that stays well into the Wave 1 models, but I haven't gotten much experience with Wave 2 models yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoodedrider Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I personally forgo Sorrows and replace them with Insidious Madness' (usually 2) as they function perfectly as scheme runners, debuffers and late game card syphons. Sorrows generally dont do as much before being killed off, and I am hesitant to sacrifice Pandora's wds to keep them going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I personally forgo Sorrows and replace them with Insidious Madness' (usually 2) as they function perfectly as scheme runners, debuffers and late game card syphons. Sorrows generally dont do as much before being killed off, and I am hesitant to sacrifice Pandora's wds to keep them going I concur. As much as I want to love Sorrows and their Misery auras, I long ago quit taking them, instead replacing them with 2 Insidious Madnesses and the game become much easier for me as they just "clicked" with Pandora and my playstyle far better. They cost the same, but have higher defenses, more basic movement, and cause more of a headache with my opponents as they are good scheme runners and overall annoyances with their auras/abilities than my sorrows ever were. That's a personal opinion though. Try them out for yourself for a few games. Hell, proxy sorrows as madnesses with a local player or try them on vassal. I'm sure they wouldn't mind you testing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dassenkop Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thx. for the "Pandora" encouragements guys . Been reading the Pullmyfinger stuff and your inputs and its starting to make sense, now to put things in practice. I'll do another 'test' solo game over the weekend with focus on Pandora's tricks and see how it goes. Next to Pandora I do have Lilith as well as Kirai, Yan Lo and Leveticus but these crews aren't complete yet so have left them on the side for the moment. Once I get the hang of Pandora the rest will be a piece of cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ressummon Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 I am due to begin testing Pandora this weekend - I have Lynch crew, Pandora Crew, Widow Weaver, Doppelganger, Mr Graves, Depleted and Tots to use so I think I can easily pull a good crew from this. Though I never have used her and I have only used lynch once. I recommend listening to Schemes and Stones podcast too - they have some awesome tips. My main opponent is Shen Long with the Toshiro/Punk Zombie combo at his forefront. I am thinking of using Brawler Pandora on a charge and on their activation (hopefully) winning/cheating to win a duel to push out of range. I have no idea if this will work but I am excited to try it!! And then try to think of how to stop condition removal!! - I assume I could make him use all his AP removing paralyzed with a different build - but then both masters AP just get wasted and the crews move as if little has happened (apart from possibly an Incited model)..... tough decisions to be made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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