30 vs 50 pts

[Bumpasses]

I am still newish as can be seen with some of my posts.

 

We are building a group of Mali players at our local GS where there where none.

We have been only playing 50ss, we have switched to 30ss to allow for shorter games so more can play.

 

 

I have been playing Yan at 50 with no problems at 50 then tried hiw with 30.

Big difference at 30 and I chose poorly for schemes.

 

What is a good "formula" for tools/models at 30ss?

 

Why take a Henchman over a master?

 

 

 

ty

 

-GB

[zFiend]

I don't really see why you would take a Henchman over a master unless it's a setup game where you both agree to do so.

30ss is a weird slot, we have been playing 35, 40, 50ss and they have been quite good, 50 being the best.

At 40 you basically need to drop a big gun which makes things more interesting. 35 you need to really build the crew for the schemes with not much to fool around with. 30 we have never played, then it's down to HC format.

[MasterDisaster]

I agree with zFiend. There is pretty much never a justifiable reason so pick a Henchman over a Master. The only time you must is when you play at 20ss. 3AP is better than 2AP. Masters tend to have more game changing abilities and really affect the table more. Masters always better than Henchman unles specific terms have been set up prior to the game. 

 

I've setup a beginners slow grow league that will start at 30ss and eventually reach 50ss over the course of next year. It'll be interesting to see how things change as the games increase in size. To begin with I'm encouraging people to focus on their schemes and strategies at 30ss and less on the killing (unless that's involved in the schemes) and crew synergies. As we expand more complicated lists will no doubt develop but at 30ss there is such little room to maneuver that you really need to focus on bagging those VP. 

[Breng77]

The issue I find at lower SS is that it really buffs certain abilities (like summoning) and helps masters that are powerful on their own without many upgrades. It can be fun, but overall 50ss seems to produce better games.

[LunarSol]

I haven't really found much purpose to 30 SS games outside of "literally the only thing I own is this crew box" and even then you usually have enough to field something in the 40 range.  Mostly I just find at less than 50 there's not enough stuff to get good, interactive play on the schemes and lacking that, the game tends to lack what really makes it special.

[MasterDisaster]

The issue I find at lower SS is that it really buffs certain abilities (like summoning) and helps masters that are powerful on their own without many upgrades. It can be fun, but overall 50ss seems to produce better games.

 

I haven't really found much purpose to 30 SS games outside of "literally the only thing I own is this crew box" and even then you usually have enough to field something in the 40 range.  Mostly I just find at less than 50 there's not enough stuff to get good, interactive play on the schemes and lacking that, the game tends to lack what really makes it special.

 

I agree with both of these statements. The game is balanced at the 50ss level and that is where it is really meant to be played, more often than not if you go dramatically lower than this some house rules are required to balance it out a little. That's the reason my league has certain restrictions on what models can be used by any particular player within the league, this is mainly to prevent summoners dominating the league table but as it is a beginner friendly league it also wouldn't be fair on people like me who own tonnes of models to play the optimal stuff when others are stuck with the basics of a box set or two.

 

50ss is where the game is designed to be the best and most balanced but I don't see anything wrong with smaller games. I often struggle to put together a list at lower point games because you don't have the space for all your usual additions. It does make for a slightly interesting setting because you need to make some tough decisions. 

[mythicFOX]

In a crew build you should be considering; strategy, schemes, opposing faction, deployment type, and terrain. 

 

At 50ss you can build to take account of these, as your games get smaller you start having to drop items from consideration. This tends to make games more match up dependant and makes it harder to mitigate risks, making the game more swingy. 

[LunarSol]

50ss is where the game is designed to be the best and most balanced but I don't see anything wrong with smaller games.

 

I actually do feel there's something wrong with smaller games.  I really don't think the experience they provide reflects well on the game and don't even provide the benefits generally associated with starting smaller and working up.  They don't play that much faster, they don't cost that much less, and they're really not any less complicated.  

 

It would be kind of neat to see lower point games get some love though.  In some regard, the new 2 player starter sounds like it has the right idea for teaching the game, but some new gametypes for 20 and 30 point games could be very cool.  For example, I'd love to see 30 points get a starter set of schemes and strategies to better serve as a crew box introduction.  I also think there's a ton of potential for very combat oriented, 20 point henchmen led games to have their own rules.  Maybe even cut the table down to 2x2 and get a really polished experience at that level.

[Ausplosions]

The game is Designed for 50ss.

Anything smaller than about 45, begins heavily unbalancing it. The game just isn't designed for 30ss games. That size game is far, far too small for any semblance of balance...

[Bumpasses]

What ss total is usually run at tourneys?

 

 

-GB

[Ausplosions]

42-50 in my area.

[MasterDisaster]

 In some regard, the new 2 player starter sounds like it has the right idea for teaching the game, but some new gametypes for 20 and 30 point games could be very cool. 

 

This is news to me, is this an official thing?

[Adran]

This is news to me, is this an official thing?

I heard it on fools daily with Justin.

Guild V Neverborn crews, set up to teach you parts of the game bit by bit, containing 2 minions, 1 enforcer and 1 henchman each. (so start off with Minion V minion combat, then learn moving, and so on)

No idea when its due for release.

 

Locally we play 40-50 ss for tournements. I'd not recomend lower than that for anything beyond learning the basic rules.