Is Nekima worth it?

[KingJocko]

Nekima is a brutal model with stats almost in line with a master, but at 13ss she costs more than a rider, Killjoy, or Howard Langston. Combined with her being a Henchman a couple of upgrades can knock the cost up to 15-16ss. Most of the battle reps I've read involve her being in a Lilith crew as that's where she has the most synergy, but I was wondering if she is worth it in other crews and if anyone had any stand out experiences with her.

 

Does she have good universal synergy with Neverborn or should she just stick with Lilith?

[EnternalVoid]

I have not played her yet as I never picked up her model but I have played against her several times so I do have some experience.  The first thing to note is that her melee attack is on par for most of those monsters you listed but at the same time superior to many of them.  Rider's don't tend to have the base damage and those that do end up with high damage need the suits to build it up.  Killjoy has a superior damage spread but has 2" rather than 3" and Ml6 rather than Ml7.  Also while Killjoy has a superior healing from his attack Nekima still has ways to heal herself as well.    Langston has a similar damage spread and Ml but has Nimble to Nekima has Melee expert.  So they are just about equal as Langston also has Flurry save that Nekima does not have to focus all three of her attacks on a single target if you go that route.  She also again has that 1" on Langston in melee. 

 

So like all pricy beatsticks it comes down to your ability to use them and support them.  Lilith and Zoraida both can help Nekima get around to better position her.  So can Lucius with his action, That is what Lackey are For.  Pandora makes her pulse horror duels scarier as they can equate to extra damage and she generates fairly large pulses with her 50mm base.  4" from her base is a pretty large circle.  And they are TN13 and TN14 so decent values.  She also helps cover Pandora in having an attack against Df rather than Wp.  Dreamer and Collodi have less support for her and favor other henchmen options I think.  Same with Lynch.

 

She also can be kind of a jerk if assassinate is on the table as if they almost have your master dead Nekima can swoop in, take the kill, heal up, become more dangerous, and now you have to kill Nekima before you get your VP.

[Sezar]

I have found her to perform way better with Big Z by her side both because of Obey (of course) and Nurses.

Anyway, she will most probably be your main piece on the Crew, and the list should at least partially be built around her. As her main problem is her survability, you may want anyone to increase her protection or heal her. Another way would be to allow her to reach combat faster, so she doesn't get hurt much before she starts swinging the sword.

As with every SS-expensive model, hiring her is always a risk, but when you make her work, she is absolutely a Beast and very well worth her investment.

[The Godlyness]

I like using her in my dreamer crew. She is a great anti scheme runner. And since I give her fgf I don't want her near me. But with flight 6 she is never far if I need her to crush faces in. And dreamer heals her and a wp 14 horror duel is really hard when web markers and day dreams are floating about. So she can shut down crews with proper setup.

Is she an auto take? Nope but no model is. (Cept mech rider..,,,,,,.,.,..) but she does her job of being a center piece. And for some reason people like to (try to)kill her a lot.

[Joel]

yep, she's worth it - I just don't like the metal model

[cdhay]

A million times yes for any neverborn master. But like others have hinted don't just throw her in turn 1 as she does go down pretty easy. She can shut a flank down by herself and amazing turn 1-3 taking out low-mid point models and scheme runners to shut down enemy scoring. Melee expert allows her to double walk 12" and then usually kill things in one hit (and a bit of stabbing herself for black blood). And if assasinate is in the pool if your master is close to dying then swoop her in and take that away from in and deny your opponent that too. I usually take her naked tho although I can see how fgf would work too.

oh but I have a nice proxy conversion as the metal model is dreadful to play with

[cdhay]

But she doesn't like to be shot

[GrengisKhan]

As Chris and Joel will know I tend to get great use out of her with Lilith and Collodi.

She's a scapel. It may not seem like it but that is the way you have to use her if you want the most use out of her.

You also nees to take care over which "0" action you want to use that activation and what is the optimal time to use it.

[Sybaris]

Indeed that (0) action choice is very important, as you need to think ahead what she'll need most during her activation. 

 

She's not like the illuminated, guild austringer, rotten Belle or other high efficiency investment, but she does have the potential to seriously impact a game. High risk, high reward.

 

Just make sure she isn't caught within range of the models who can cripple her easily (Justice, Perdita, Killjoy, Howard, Desolation engine, Izamu,...to name a few.). The list is actually pretty long, but during a game, those models will sometimes/eventually be isolated or wounded...just enough for Nekima to come finish them. Vs shooty crews, the mimic's blessing upgrade can help protecting her a bit.

 

Keep in mind that Nekima is both a headache for its controller and its opponent. It'll know she's not that survivable, but if it fails to finish her...she can get back in good shape, and a single "extra" activation from a well positionned Nekima can swing a fight for her crew.

 

I think, overall, that they found a decent spot for her...a model that is used in a variety of lists, considered good, but not overpowered is what i consider a job well done on wyrd's part...and with her extreme concept it was far from an easy task.

[Twg]

I use her occasionally with Lillith and use Tangle Shadows to get her into combat. I usually use Tots as bait due to their relatively high defence and 4ss cost. I pick a target that has already activated to reduce hits should the target survive, which to be fair isn't often! You can also use Tangle Shadows to get her out of unfavourable fights. 

[KingJocko]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. So the consensus seems to be to play smart with her and give her some support to enhance her survivability. So my follow up to that is what would be a good additions to support Nekima without tailoring the entire list around her.

 

For example, lets say I was playing a thematic Lynch crew (Illuminated, Beckoners, Graves, Tannen, and Depleted) and added Nekima to the crew. Who would I bring along with her to keep her going? Black Blood Shaman seems like a good choice as giving Black Blood to Illuminated and buffing/healing Nekima helps tie all the models together. Would that be enough or would it require so much ss set aside that a Teddy would be a better/cheaper beatstick.

[Sezar]

A Black Blood Shaman is always a good addition to any Crew with Nephilims inside

[cdhay]

unless you are playing Ramos or Von Schill which mostly ignore black blood!

 

But good for the heal

[Ikvar]

I really like this discussion as Nekima is a model I really want to use, and even more as I will be getting her for Black Friday ^^

 

Some of you have already talked a little bit about it, however it would be awsome if we could get a bit more focus discussion on the matter- which master is the best with her?

 

For me it seems like the best master is someone who can support her, but as I dont play a lot with support masters, I dont know which to choose.

 

As far as I know, we have lucius, Zoraida and Collodi... and to some extent The Dreamer?

 

So what could these different masters do for Nekima, and who would do it best?

[Ikvar]

Alright so after some reading it seems like Zoraida is the best support master for Nekima, simply because she is not a minion so many of the other master wont be able to do much for her. Obey however will work really well at setting her in a good position, and helping her kill some stuff.

 

This is the list I have been thinking about:

 

Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Zoraida -- 4 Pool

 +Crystal Ball [2]

 +Hex Bag [1]

 

Barbaros [10]

 +Fears Given Form [1]

 +Nephilim Gladiatus [1]

Black Blood Shaman [7]

Doppleganger [7]

 +Depression [1]

Iggy [5]

Nekima [13]

 +Fears Given Form [1]

 +Nexus of Power [1]

 

As always this is just a general list, and Iggy and Doppleganger would be the first to swap out if needed.

 

This way I will have the BBS to focus support on Nekima and Barbaros, and have Barbaros use his Challenge if Nekima needs help, and Gladiatus if she is doing fine. You will also have Doppleganger to copy Nekimas attack for some heavy dmg or whatever is needed.

 

And Iggy will ofc be filling the voodoo doll up with fire

[Sybaris]

Zoraida can really work well with Nekima, at least it has for me when i used them together. Bring a Lilitu with the duo and procede to execute whatever gets lured close. It does tend to hog alot of resources though, as Nekima drains cards and stones no matter what she does. It makes Nekima an even greater threat than she usually is, and if killed Zoraida will loose alot of omph by the same token.  If you're on a budget, try a Mature Nephilim, the "obey" action is definitely violent and it's less prone to require high cheats thanks to the  on the attack and the +1 armor.

 

That being said, don't discount Lilith for one (if not the) best match. This creates a sort of target saturation on the table, as both are very powerful melee fighters... so going after either of the two sisters makes it a catch 22 for your opponent...if one assigns too much focus on one, she's leaving the other a little too "free" for comfort. Lilith can "protect" Nekima simply by her presence on the table; the enemy will have a hard time choosing the right dose of attention.  Added bonus, the two complete each other for resilience: Lilith can tackle models who attack on Df, while Nekima is better shielded from Wp aggression. Then add Lilith's forest cover and model displacement shenanigans and you can create truly horrible deaths situations for opposing models.

[Thaarup]

I would guess a "grow list" with Lucius and Nekima would work?

[Sybaris]

Strangely enough, if Nekima is almost a given in growth mechanic discussions/tactics, i dare say i've never actually grown a single thing in all my games with her (which is about 66% of the time). Thing just never happened. Tots are too useful for running around, so while the Youngs are ok-ish, it's not enough so that i would want to spend AP and resources into making a tot grow. During that time it could have planted scheme markers  on its own and get me a VP. That, and growing a Young into a Mature may happen once in a blue moon,  almost depending on my opponent making some serious mistakes to let it happen.

 

I find that the true mother's upgrade is costly and requires too much baby sitting to plan for, leaving you with no real gain if it fails at any point of the chain. That's why i don't work to make it happen...now if it does occur one day, it'll be fun. It perhaps has to do with how you use Nekima and the other models of the crew. I use her as a brutal fighter first and foremost, so the tactical stuff is left to the small runts . Furthermore my experience is slanted a bit because i've faced a lot of blast in my game...so gathering tots near Nekima ended up badly quite a few times...so in my mind, tots need to be operating on their own, far and away from where the big guns are gonna show. 

 

Add to this that i enjoy Fears given form on Nekima...and it makes the surrounding area quite hostile to my own models.

 

If you did have success with a "grow" list please let us know.

 

 

@Ikvar: the doppleganger is an awesome asset with Nekima, as taking the initiative can be crucial in some turns. There's also the added benefit of the doppleganger mimic'ing Nekima's great attack action profile. Iggy...honestly i'd try to squeeze in a Lilitu if you could.

[Csonti]

I use True Mother frequently and solely because of Born of Blood. As Sybaris pointed out the grow mechanism needs too much focus with questionable benefits even if successful. However spawning 2 Wd Tots is much easier. It won't work if you send Nekima head on to the enemy core frontlines (that is arguable in itself anyway) but makes wonders when you slingshot Nekima with Lilith to a weak spot with 1 model or maybe 2 close to each other. Nekima could most probably kill them while making a new Tot that is now free to run around to complete schemes and/or strategy.

[EnternalVoid]

Iggy and the Doppelganger might not be bad with Nekima for the initiative and control aspects they can give.  Incite is just mean, more so when you can cheat for intiative.  Being able to activate first, then on their activation force them to go with a different model then what they want, activate your second model, and then they can finally activate what they want can be rough.  I often have Iggy activate later in a turn so that he can target models that have already activated to try and get Mood Swing in place for the next turn.

 

Personally I would drop Barbaros, Depression on the Doppelganger, and Nexus on Nekima.  That nets you 14ss to fill out your crew more.  Having an activation or two more will go a long way to helping Nekima.  I would also consider depending on the schemes and strategy turning the Black Blood Shaman into a Lilitu.

[Twg]

I agree with dropping Barbaros. Unless you are using the strat where you need to use 2 ap to put a marker down I find the 10ss better used elsewhere. His offensive output just doesn't cut the mustard. I think some silurids or illuminated would be a good addition. One of each covers your 14 ss in fact! I find Teddy, Lillith and Nekima work well together as it provides too many offensive targets for anyone to deal with effectively and Lilliths ability to move models about means you will often get your full AP for melee attacks.

[Durza]

Barbaros isn't damage though, he's disruption. Have you ever been on the receiving end of a well placed challenge? It can screw up your entire game plan.

[EnternalVoid]

My concern with that list is activation count, damage output, and ability to complete objectives.  It has 6 models, of which only Nekima is naturally destructive.  Alot of points are tied up into support/back up roles.  While a well placed Challenge might be troublesome, any strategy or scheme that requires you to spread out a little will leave vulnerable elements.  That is why I personally would drop Barbaros and use those points elsewhere.  More than likely in more models and make sure that Nekima has the Mimic's Blessing for added protection.  But that is just how I would approach it.

[Twg]

As Eternal Void said Barbaros just doesn't add enough to the crew with those selections. Sure he has his uses, but I think that in this crew there are better choices.  

[Ikvar]

After I have tried many models in separate games now, I am slowly starting to have few favorites, and I thought it could be fun to try and gather most of them in a list.

 

  Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Lilith -- 4 Pool

 +Beckon Malifaux [1]

 +Living Blade [2]

 +Wicked Mistress [1]

 

Primordial Magic [2]

Doppleganger [7]

 +Nexus of Power [1]

Mature Nephilim [11]

 +Retribution's Eye [1]

Mr. Graves [8]

 +Obsidian Talons [1]

Nekima [13]

 +Fears Given Form [1]

 +The Mimic's Blessing [1]

 

If its a scheme heavy game, I would either drop Doppleganger or Mr. Graves in favor of a Silurid... so do you guys think this would in any way be a competitive list?

 

Oh and a little update with Nekima as the thread is all about- I had one of my first games with her (played her a lot in beta, but not so much after that). I choose to play her with Lilith, and was up against a Sommer crew with the summoning machine and a gunline... she killed 4 bayou gremlins, francois and a slop hauler before she was finally focused down by the rest of his crew. But by that time, the rest of my crew was in place and had earned VPs, and my opponent gave up