Bodiless Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'm curious what people would take in this situation. Opponent declares Gremlins, and is generous enough to tell you he is playing Brewmaster. What would you take and what would your on-table strategy be? I picked Lilith as my master, which I think would have been a solid choice in the hands of a competent Lilith player. Flank Deployment Stake a Claim A Line in the Sand Breakthrough Plant Evidence Bodyguard Power Ritual 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Things that are handy against Brewmaster: - ranged attacks (either shooting or spells) so you can kill models without getting into the Brewmaster tarpit. - effects that can rescue friendly models out of the Brewmaster tarpit. (Lure and similar effects) - WP buffs - models with Chatty or Scheme Marker manipulation, to handle Fingers - fast Scheme Runners that can stay far away from the tarpit Things to avoid against Brewmaster: - low WP models - low WP models with lots of Melee attacks With that set of Schemes, you're going to see a lot of Scheme Marker schemes, which play to Brewmaster's strength. Tangled Shadows will probably help to pull out individual enemy models without getting stuck. Terror Tots are always great Scheme runners. Consider Lelu and Lilitu if you have them. You're going to wish you had more Ranged Attacks. The Cupid will help with that. Consider other ranged models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Brewmaster to my understanding will have a field day on your WP5 Lilith. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 And indeed he did! I stupidly strayed into range of Binge, lost all of my suits (no more Tangle) and proceeded to get hammered (pun intended). Opening the question up a bit, if you were taking Neverborn with that scheme pool against Gremlins, what would you take as your master/crew? What would you take knowing you were facing Brewmaster? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 The Dreamer. Just because he is amazing. If you want to play dirty just summon spam Stitched Togethers and put the hurt right where it belongs, on the Gremlins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted November 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Alas, until his box comes out... from Hateful Darkblack's list it seems like Lynch would be a good bet. Decent ranged damage on him and the Beckoners, models like Tannen for chatty and ruthless models like Graves, the chance for recycled aces on Tots, etc. But it also seems like a bit of an uphill battle in general for Neverborn, a faction that does not exactly scream "ranged models" unless you hire a ton of mercs. Edit: Except that now that I think about it all of Lynch's ranged efforts are short enough ranged that the Brewball would be able to roll up on them in the following turn. Maybe Lucius with riflemen hired on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Lucius can also bring Guard Sergeant to give to Wp duels to nearby guardsmen. That should help a bit. He also happens to be one of the best masters for stake a claim in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I usually take Collodi against Gremlins. Their Wp are not good, so Collodi can easily control them. In Stake a Claim, his slow trigger is more useful. And Collodi can use “My Will” & “Breathe Life” to move his minions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hmm. Gremlins have access to a cheap +2 WP upgrade though, which I would assume they would take once I declare Neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Bodyguard is a good one against Brewmaster. March your b/g model into his aura and leave him there, enjoying all the free healing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Good call. Something with Fears given form and/or terrifying in the middle of the brewmasters set up with bodyguard. Possibly JuJu with Eternal fiend, and hire several Gupps for staking claims, being ready to kill them if you need juju un buried on turn 4. probably also use them for Breakthrough. (And maybe a silurid or two) Zoirada is probably pretty good in this casen (wp 10 is great for passing Wp tests) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 In this game I took Plant Evidence, Power Ritual, and 3 Terror Tots. I scored my schemes without too much trouble, but I never seriously threatened to score on Stake. Between Reckless and having a massive advantage in activations it was pretty trivial for him to outscore me on the strategy. Putting Bodyguard on Graves and running him into the Brewball is a pretty funny idea though - especially since with Ruthless he would have had a chance to actually accomplish things. I also think I could have really used Hans in this scenario, to snipe out scheme runners and the Slop Hauler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hmm. Gremlins have access to a cheap +2 WP upgrade though, which I would assume they would take once I declare Neverborn. Liquid Bravery? Why not? But Down the Hatch is (0) Action, and it give +2 Wp to only Minions. If you target non-minion models, It is not matter. (Except Leader) And not only Brewmaster can decrease his enemies' Wp. Neverborn's some models can do, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 AH, I didn't realize it was a (0), I thought it was an always on aura. So it would compete with Drinking Contest, which is huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 In addition, Collodi's Ca is 7 and he can take Arcane Effigy to remove conditions. (Sorry, I forget saying it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Another very good point in his favor, thanks. Alas, practically all of the masters that are being recommended in this thread are ones that are unreleased! I'm planning to get Zoraida this weekend though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 You said you picked terror tots, and used them for dropping scheme markers. Is there a reason you weren't using them to drop claim markers? How where yuo planning on droppign claim markers in your list? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 My plan for dropping claim markers was to spend tot actions to get into place, then Tangling them with a model that had not activated to have a model in position with two AP to burn. Tots on their own are not particularly good Claim runners, in my opinion, because of the 2 AP cost. If I owned Silurids I would have swapped out the Tots for them in a heartbeat in this case. But in combination with Tangle they could sprint, drop a scheme marker, then get replaced with a model that could drop a claim. So it seemed like a workable plan. But that plan went completely off the rails when I drastically underestimated the threat range Brewmaster and the Shinobi had. I moved Lilith up to a central location on turn 1 so she could spend turn 2 redistributing models, and she promptly got Binged, charged, poisoned with Swill, and then murdered by two moon shinobi. After that I was basically playing to try and salvage some dignity from the inevitable loss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Another very good point in his favor, thanks. Alas, practically all of the masters that are being recommended in this thread are ones that are unreleased! I'm planning to get Zoraida this weekend though... If you play with Zoraida against brewmaster, think about your crew's other models at first. Because Zoraida's Wp is very good, But her Swampfiend friends & Enthralled models aren't. (5 or worse) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Thats true, but you have exactly the same to consider for your crew regardless of master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Just looking at that strategy and scheme set up, regardless of opponents faction, the first things to come to mind are Lilith, Primordial Magic, 3x Silurids, 2x Waldgeist, and McTavish. And I wouldn't worry what he was bringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonkin Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Tots with Cherub are ideal claim runners. Taking a (2) claim action for (1) is huge! D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hell, or wait for something to get "stuck in" near Brewmaster, especially if 2+ of his own models are in close, and use the cherub to target your own guy, make it have severe+hazardous terrain, and let him have fun taking damage and walking slow. Use Lilith's Illusionary forest to the same advantage. Brewmaster can't hit what he can't see (the forest disrupts the LoS of his , both to your guys and to his own...make him waste AP to move back into position. Stay at max range from him with all the terrain slowing him down. If you have Waldgeist, then use their terrain (Germinate) to the same effect, slow him down. Have Lilith rip him apart piece by piece while your tots or other runners are dropping markers. Throw Barbaros right at him, have Fears Given Form on him, and just let him stand there being drunk and full healed. It might not do damage, but it will drain cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Just looking at that strategy and scheme set up, regardless of opponents faction, the first things to come to mind are Lilith, Primordial Magic, 3x Silurids, 2x Waldgeist, and McTavish. And I wouldn't worry what he was bringing. Agreed. But I have a question. Can Mctavish use "Hex among you"? I think "Hex among you" is neverborn / gremlins upgrade for "swampfiend", and he is "swampfiend" mercenary. (Mercenary can use hiring factions upgrade.) I know he can't use it as neverborn in crew creator, But I think crew creator needs updates. And he can use it as gremlins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Odd question, but it does give rise to LOS issues. Are Liliths two Forest Markers treated as a single piece of terrain or two separate but touching pieces of terrain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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