Miniatures out of scale

[twilightling]

Yestarday as I was painting my samurai team a friend pointed out how one of his Death Marshals is bigger than the others - as it was of slightly bigger scale. Then he pointed out how one of my samurai is also a bit bigger than the rest.

 

Does anyone know of there is a specific reason for this?

[jonahmaul]

Poor QC!  Some of these have been picked up (Amazon Viks for example, the Brewmaster box has also been held up by scale issues apparently) but some have been allowed to go through (the ones that you mention, the giant victim being held by the Flesh Construct, TTB Multi-part females, and I'm sure some others that I can't think of);  most likely (pure speculation on my part here) because it's too expensive to get them completely re-tooled when there's only some that are off on a sprue.  Whilst having different scales is realistic (similar to the proper scale on the hands/feet) and represents well that we are not all the same size some of them are just waaaaayyyyy out (giant kneeling Samurai for example).

[BoardGames.BG]

The kneeling Death Marshal's coffin is 1.5 times bigger than the boxes of the other two marshals. It was funny I didn't notice and then I read about it and I couln't stop seeing it all the time, and then yesterday Twilightling posted an image of the Samurai and I saw another huge kneeling model.

 

Not bad though, you will know who's the group boss

[rb_man]

The Depleted has the same issue. The 1 standing guy is like a child compared to the other 2. 

[zFiend]

Beckoners have it too, the leaning one is way off. 

[BoardGames.BG]

Sounds like something intentional then.

[LunarSol]

I get the impression that scale is determined by model height and model height isn't being adjusted for models that are kneeling in some of the sets.

[Twg]

I haven't seen any models so far whereby their scale has ruined the game. I have never used 3 samurai, so I use the larger one if I take one and the other two if I intend taking a pair. Same with the death marshalls. I can't say I really noticed the issue with the beckoners.

[Matney X]

At least there's a fluffy excuse for the giant Death Marshal.

[jonahmaul]

I get the impression that scale is determined by model height and model height isn't being adjusted for models that are kneeling in some of the sets.

I agree

 

I haven't seen any models so far whereby their scale has ruined the game. I have never used 3 samurai, so I use the larger one if I take one and the other two if I intend taking a pair. Same with the death marshalls. I can't say I really noticed the issue with the beckoners.

I gave away my kneeling Samurai to a mate!

[tmod]

Poor QC! Some of these have been picked up (Amazon Viks for example, the Brewmaster box has also been held up by scale issues apparently) but some have been allowed to go through (the ones that you mention, the giant victim being held by the Flesh Construct, TTB Multi-part females, and I'm sure some others that I can't think of); most likely (pure speculation on my part here) because it's too expensive to get them completely re-tooled when there's only some that are off on a sprue. Whilst having different scales is realistic (similar to the proper scale on the hands/feet) and represents well that we are not all the same size some of them are just waaaaayyyyy out (giant kneeling Samurai for example).

I think there's an element of overthinking it here.. Some examples are definitely cases of qc (Viks, Brewmaster), but they have been stopped/recalled (TTB females are a different story, and here I think retooling costs and lost income with further delays playrd a part).

Most of the others that are associated with models kneeling or bending over, and are probably a result of a conscious decision that it will look better/be easier to put together. Wyrd has probably decided that the front picture is important, and that the models should resemble this closely, and a small kneeling figure in the back doesn't look so good. We may not like this decision, but a bad esthetic decision is still different from poor qc IMHO...

[Math Mathonwy]

I think there's an element of overthinking it here.. Some examples are definitely cases of qc (Viks, Brewmaster), but they have been stopped/recalled (TTB females are a different story, and here I think retooling costs and lost income with further delays playrd a part).

Most of the others that are associated with models kneeling or bending over, and are probably a result of a conscious decision that it will look better/be easier to put together. Wyrd has probably decided that the front picture is important, and that the models should resemble this closely, and a small kneeling figure in the back doesn't look so good. We may not like this decision, but a bad esthetic decision is still different from poor qc IMHO...

You're forgetting the Flesh Construct victim, the Wendigo victim, the Young LaCroix with the gun, the Young LaCroix mooning, and so on and so forth.

I can sorta believe your explanation for Brass Arachnid or the Skeeters (they are simply a bad design that would've been impossible to do in their proper size so they blew them up - fitting on a base be damned) but not for most of the models that are grossly out of scale.

BUT, Wyrd is aware of the QC issues regarding scale and have said that they'll be paying more attention to that in the future (and also make the piece count lower in the kits).

[jonahmaul]

I'm with Math.  Your explanation is sort of acceptable in some instances but I'm afraid the argument falls down here in particular:

Most of the others that are associated with models kneeling or bending over, and are probably a result of a conscious decision that it will look better/be easier to put together.

There are a lot of miniatures that are a pain to put together because they are in so many pieces (one of the common complaints about the Wyrd plastic despite how awesome they are).  Just go look at the Zombie Chihuahua, clearly they're not concerned about whether size is an important indicator of being easier to put together.  And the look better argument falls down as well I'm afraid because the massively oversized miniatures look crap!

 

As Math says, Wyrd are aware of issues with the scale of some miniatures so it clearly is a QC issue (albeit one they are thankfully addressing).

[dancater]

Certainly am hoping that this problem gets solved. The plastics are generally much better than the older metals, most of the time I prefer the sculpts and they are simpler to glue and lighter and easier to transport and if necessary repair.

 

However as someone who owns most of the plastic range I have noted three real issues all of which have been mentioned here and each of which really aggravates me as it pollutes an otherwise excellent 2E set of rules and model releases.

 

1. The fact that certain mini's have clearly been crafted without table playability in mind; most notably this is true of several disproportionate totems, the Brass Arachnid is probably the prime example of this.

2. The QC issue which seems to crop up with unusual frequency in an otherwise apparently closely monitored set of rules and design concept. This is the problem which started this whole post and in several cases it has caused me to not use models because otherwise the on table theme is superb and the anomolies really jar the mind.

3. The incredibly fiddly multi part and in some cases micro part model assembly, also mentioned here and the Zombie Chihuahua and one of the Waldgiest are examples of models with microscopic plastic components. These are difficult to assemble and easy to loose or accidently break, assembling them can be agonising.

 

Now every one of these problems is well documented, every one of them it has been stated is being addressed and should no longer occur (or at least much less). I certainly hope that this is the case, it surprises me that Wyrd a company that really owes its genesis to the miniatures is struggling the most with the quality of those figures. The rules, community, conceptual design imagery all are exceptional but the new plastic figure design, moulding and sprue process seems to be as much miss as hit.

 

Honestly this post doesn't add much at all to this argument but another voice which hopes for and expects better from a company which has shown that it can supply that first class sort of quality.

 

Ohhh and I have been putting together Zoriada and the Waldgiest so multi part, tiny part, complicated glue conflict nightmare scenario venting was also a worthwhile reason to participate in this thread

[MasterDisaster]

Is it such a major issue with multiples of the same model? Do you really expect every Torakage/Depleted/Death Marshall/Samurai to be the same height and build? Of course not! People aren't clones. I think it adds a nice bit of variety to multiples of models. It's not like we are playing Warhammer with 50+ models all looking the damn same 

 

Also for those that are ranting about the difficulty or quality of plastics, to you I say give Wyrd a bloody break!! They dealt with metal mini's for years, they aren't as well practiced as GW or Mantic and the likes. They have only been dealing with them for roughly 2-3 years apposed to GW who have been in the plastics game for over 30. They are probably still learning on how to develop better techniques to make their insanely nice plastics more manageable. They have got pretty much everything spot on with M2E, there isn't much of a need to bash them on their kits.

 

Yeah some of them are fiddly and frustrating but time and patience will get those fiddly models built. I've got every model mentioned in this thread bar Zoraida, Waldgheists and the Samurai. I don't see what the problem is? I've only struggled with the Strongarm Suit's cables and out of all the notorious models out there there haven't been any that caused any real issue for me. I even have the out of scale Ronin from the Viks GenCon release, seriously guys.... It's no biggy! If you want super cool dynamically posed models you have to allow for these sorts of things. If you want piss easy models to put together that all look the same then go see Mantic or GW. 

[zFiend]

I just want a pair of Skeeters I can actually play with.

[Math Mathonwy]

Is it such a major issue with multiples of the same model? Do you really expect every Torakage/Depleted/Death Marshall/Samurai to be the same height and build? Of course not! People aren't clones. I think it adds a nice bit of variety to multiples of models. It's not like we are playing Warhammer with 50+ models all looking the damn same 

Dude, I'm a bit of a giant and I don't come anywhere near that kneeling Samurai!

Pic courtesy of Gmort's excellent unboxing series:

http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/unboxing-malifaux-samurai.html

Also, if it was just the man but it is his equipment that is also over-sized. I would have zero problem with the big death marshall if his chains, his coffin, and his gun weren't over-sized as well.

[Math Mathonwy]

I just want a pair of four Skeeters I can actually play with.

Fixed that for you. Sadly enough.

[zFiend]

Fixed that for you. Sadly enough.

Oh, correct you are.

[jonahmaul]

Masterdisaster - your response just comes off as a big defence of everything Wyrd.  We all understand those issues and give Wyrd some leeway because they are fantastic.  At the end of the day we're all on the forum because we love Malifaux and Wyrd miniatures.  But as Math has pointed out, the Samurai isn't just slightly different scale to the others, he is HUGE!

[MasterDisaster]

I know I was just saying. I'm not some fanatical Wyrd fan boy, far from it! I think they are a damn good company and I like their products but continuously moaning about these sorts of issues isn't going to solve anything. We all know there are some scaling issues on a select few models, in cases were it was problematic or a mistake Wyrd recalled the models and solved the problem. In other cases (DM's, Samurai etc) they haven't so Wyrd don't see it as that big of a deal. But I ask, do we really need to keep flogging the same dead horse? There have been a number of discussions on this very topic in my time on the forums. Some of these issues frustrate me too but I just get on with it. Is it really THAT big of a deal? I mean seriously, why does it matter that much? It's not life threatening, at worst it's slightly irritating. 

 

If you don't like that particular model then just don't build it, don't use it at the same time as the others, don't buy the box... period. 9 times out of 10 you wont be using all 3 Samurai anyway, 9 times out of 10 you wont be using 3 Death Marshalls. It may be a production mistake, it could be deliberate. There's no need for these sorts of threads to crop up every few months complaining about the same issues.  Seriously guys... This is not THAT big of a deal. 

 

Finally I don't want to start a raging argument or provoke any negativity on the forums, I was just expressing my humble opinion. That's all I'll have to say on this matter, I will take my leave from this particular thread. 

[Math Mathonwy]

I mean seriously, why does it matter that much? It's not life threatening, at worst it's slightly irritating.

If we aren't allowed to complain about non-life threatening stuff, this place is going to be a lot quieter

If you don't like that particular model then just don't build it, don't use it at the same time as the others, don't buy the box... period. 9 times out of 10 you wont be using all 3 Samurai anyway, 9 times out of 10 you wont be using 3 Death Marshalls.

I liked the suggestion someone had of converting the kneeling Samurai into a Fuhatsu proxy

It may be a production mistake, it could be deliberate.

In the latter case, it is doubly important to voice our opinion if we don't like it, I think!

There's no need for these sorts of threads to crop up every few months complaining about the same issues.  Seriously guys... This is not THAT big of a deal.

This one was started by a new player making an observation and asking a question. We can't expect everyone to know which issues are repeating and which are not.

[jonahmaul]

We're just expressing our opinion too MD.  Certainly nobody wants you to feel that you have to pull out of a thread.  Everybody here is entitled to their opinions as long as they are presented in a fair way (which they have been).  It's very hard to get intent across in a forum because you cannot show facial expressions (beyond smilies), gestures etc. and people aren't arguing.  As Math says, it's an issue that is important to people and if they want to discuss it then this is the place to do so.  It is an issue that Wyrd are addressing but whilst there are still problems people will continue to voice their opinion.

[dancater]

I have this philosophy.

 

If I like something but it is not perfect I will complain about those imperfections and strive to make it everything I want.

 

When it achieves perfection I will then complain that it is perfect and that makes it boring and predictable.

 

This philosphy is central to why I am single and spend most of my nights gaming or roaming forums concerning gaming.....

So I admit it may be flawed

 

But seriously all this post is about for me is a place where I could vent a little frustration over some things I think Wyrd should know and can strive to solve. I do cut them a break, this is why I do own most of the plastics but I think the reason Wyrd is an excellent game and developing in a positive direction is that it has a vibrant forum and community and it appears to listen to its demographic.

Compare Wyrd to certain other companies which are let we say less available and responsive to their fans.....

I think this type of genuine and tempered posting is what allows the game to grow in the direction we all want. I'd rather be told what I'm doing right (to encourage me to go on) AND what I'm doing wrong (because this is what I need to change) than either one or the other.

 

Wyrd - the rules are nicely balanced, unique in there mechanics yet still effective, atmospheric, incredibly variable, imagination inspiring and the models are mostly gorgeous

 

But Wyrd - some of your models are unworkably scaled or disproportionately sized

 

The fact that the top section has multiple entries is why I play now. The fact that I think they will listen to the bottom is what inspires my confidence in the future of the game.

For me this is not a post about how Wyrd is bad its a post about how an excellent organisation can improve on a product that I already consider to be the best overall in the current market.

[(Sarcasm)]

Matney X, what fluffy reason is that? If you're referring to the giant death marshal with the eye patch in one of the dreamer stories then I'm pretty sure he clawed his own eyes out.