Help for nicodem crew

[jonatep]

I want to start a nicodem crew but I don't know what models i should buy.

 

For now on, my thought are:

 

The box set,

rotten belles,

bete noire

 

the ones i am not sure about are:

-canine remains as i would prefer the necro punk for objective but I cannot fin them in France and I am curious to see what the plastics ones will look like.

-flesh construct

-the hanged, they seems strong and can be summon.

 

I want to be sure I have enough choose for summoning pool but I cannot buy ALL the undead.

[Swiglitz]

Your first choices are very good, the boxed set gives you everything you need to get started and Rotten Belles are brilliant so they're a good pick. While Bete Noir is grea miniature she doesn't have any more snyergy with Nicodem than any other master, by all menas pick her up as she's great but if you're looking for models to start a Nicodem crew I might suggest leaving her until a little later.

 

I would agree with your choices of Flesh Construct and The Hanged as they're great models and very useful as summons or as part of your crew. We don't how long it will be before Necropunk's are available in plastic so Canine Remains are a good alternative. That being the case you might be better picking up the McMourning box set, you get a Flesh Construct a Canine Remains and 2 Nurses, which are also brilliant, in addition to another Master and Henchman.

 

Other than the above I'd recommend the University of Tansmortis box set also, the Iron Zombies (student of steel, sinew & viscera) are very strong summon pieces and the Valedictorian is a great Henchman when you need something a bit more 'fighty' in your crew. I'd also look at the Yan Lo type models, primarily Toshiro. Izamu, and Yin  as all are available in plastic and all are strong contenders for a place in a Nicodem crew.

 

Finally, if you plan on taking the Manical Laugh upgrade (not vital, but great fun) you might want to invest in some generic Zombie models until the official Malifaux Mindless Zombies get released.

 

Hope that helps

[jonatep]

I am not a great fan of the yan lo zombies figures. For the university as they are 7 or 8 cost, i would prefer to summon a punk instead. I am not planning to use manical laugh.

 

Thanks for the help.

[MasterDisaster]

I am not a great fan of the yan lo zombies figures. For the university as they are 7 or 8 cost, i would prefer to summon a punk instead. I am not planning to use manical laugh.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

I think you are being very narrow minded on the Iron Zombies. They are amazing and easily on par with Punks. I started a thread which discussed the pros and cons of take them here, it's well worth a read http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/100888-iron-zombies-vs-punk-zombies/

 

Canine Remains are good for Nico as they can be very fast scheme runners but they are also great for helping with corpse counters. Maniacal Laugh offers so much support, especially with Canine Remains. The more Mindless Zombies you have the more triggers and abilities open up to you. You can sacrifice them to get full heals on summoned models and draw a card for each MZ sacrificed (1 for the summon and 1 for the heal) which is insane card control. I wouldn't over look it. 

 

Flesh Constructs are great speed bumps and are a worthy addition to any Nico crew as are the Hanged regardless of my personal feelings on those. Other models to consider are Nurses & Chiaki the Niece for support, Crooligans as scheme runners, Night Terrors are great little chaff models and are ridiculous for reconnoiter also The Grave Spirit and Izamu the Armour is just plain scary with Nico! The addition of Toshiro is also great for Nico as he can offer more buffs and support to the crew making Nico's buffs on his crew much much more effective. 

[jonatep]

Thanks,

 

I cannot take every thing directly but I have a good idea of what I will need, so I think about (as much as my wallet can)

 

box set,

rotten belle,

bete noire (because I think I will enjoy playing her),

canine remains,

flesh construct,

university of Transmortis

[Dirial]

I should point out that you could get Seamus if you're planning on buying Rotten Belles. Sybelle is a good Henchwoman, and you cannot get Seamus and Sybelle on their own. If you don't get them together, you will have 6 Belles.

 

Before I buy a Minion pack, I would always get a Master box including said Minions.

[Brightmore]

Personally I would consider buying a Necropunk pack.

 

Some of the best Scheme Runners in the game. 

 

I would avoid the hanged they are brutally hard for Nicodem to summon, and I have found them to be largely meh in my games. 

(considering what else you can get for 9 points). 

 

The Box set for Nicodem is perfect pretty much everything you need and nothing you do(except I am not a huge fan of the vulture). I would buy Necro Punks on top of that.

 

I agree with others though, Belles are fab, but I would really buy the Seamus box, for them as opposed to their minion box unless you want six.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Agree on several points.

 

If you are getting Belles, it might be better to just buy the Seamus box as you cannot get the CCK, Seamus, or Sybelle in their plastic incarnations any other way. Ultimately you might find yourself wanting 6 belles, are at least more than 3, so it's not going to hurt you in the long run to buy the belles first.

 

I'd buy a set of the Hanged at some point, but I don't think they are a high priority. They are undoubtably good, but other than summoning I really find them worth it. There are some models that if the opponent doesn't have condition removal their Whisper from Beyond just messes with the day of other models. Illuminated, Izamu, Seamus, and so on, basically anything that relies on being able to heal fast as part of its survivability. The lose half wounds is certainly good, but not great. It's good for the first attack on a high wound model, but against already wounded targets or low wound models it has diminishing returns, and so while I would never call it not good, its not something I'm often willing to spend 9 SS to get. So as a summoned model they are great because you can pop them out when you need them, or leave them in the box when you don't.

 

I agree on Necropunks, and in fact, along with Belles I'd make these your priority. The Nico box comes with some great support (mort and the vulture) and some great beaters (the punks) but it doesn't have anything great for getting things that need fast mobility done, or anything that you can summon with low cards. Necropunks fix this. Some people prefer Crooligans, but for Nicodem I'd prefer Necropunks.

[jonahmaul]

I really like Hanged although I can't comment on their usefulness for Nicodem as I've yet to run him yet (he's at the top of the to do list).  They do seem expensive at 9SS but I find Whispers very good just for the half wounds as getting it off on Masters/Henchmen or any other high wound stuff is wonderful!  The no healing is often a big bonus too.  Their attacks also cause horror duels if they damage which is very nice, if only to eat up opponents cards.  I find a Hanged with Seamus and Sybelle creates a very horrible bubble of Terrifying which the Hanged ability that you lose immunity to it means at the least a few cards being eaten up unless your opponent is very lucky.  Again I can't comment on their usefulness with Nicodem but having the option to summon them seems very useful.

[Fetid Strumpet]

*shrug* If they work for you, great. For me even with Seamus who I play a lot they have never seemed like anything other than an expensive trap. I get almost no real use from them against anyone who knows what they are doing, and I don't need them against people who don't. I get much more utility with them with Spirit based Molly, and by extension, Nicodem.

 

For me, in general, if the opponent knows a Hanged is on the table they are going to save the card they need to overcome Whispers when it comes in, and then they kill the Hanged. It's happened to me against too many good opponents to really rate them much as anything but summon bait.

 

That said, these are my experiences against people in my area(s). Best recommendation, proxy them and see how they work for you and your environs. 

[jonatep]

I will probably not take the hanged as i don't really like the model. What you think about the rogue necromancy, seeing the art, it look great and I found a good proxy for it. I cannot find the necropunk in my usual shops but i like them, also are belles really necessary? Because I don't really like the miniatures, that's why I will probably not buy the sheamus box.

 

edit: I think of using the rogue necromancy with it's upgrade instead of the belle for movement. Combine with the fresh meat from ortimer, it should be enough no?

 

And what about the dead rider? I am talking about the good looking miniatures

[Dirial]

Belles are GREAT. Sure, they mostly do one thing, maybe two: They are fairly survivable for their cost, and they lure. And boy, do they lure! If you like a positioning game (and you should), they are the best model 5 SS can buy.

 

They aren't a must (no model is, in my opinion), but they are really, really good. If you seriously want to play Resser, you will want some sooner rather than later.

[jonahmaul]

Could I ask what proxy you've found is as I've been thinking of trying to proxy one myself.  I can't comment on the Rogue Necromancy as I've not used it but Belles are the Masters of luring.  At Ca 8 with the suit in-built there is very little that can resit being lured by them.

 

How do you use Hanged effectively with Molly/Nicodem Fetid?  I've not got Molly on the table yet either but I want to play both so would love some advice on them.  Most of my gaming group (including myself) are pretty inexperienced when it comes to Malifaux (I'm one of the more experience and have played probably less than 30 games) so maybe it's not been countered very well in my group as you suggest.

[jonatep]

I think of this as a proxy for the rogue necromancy

 

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/chimera/sku-down/02674

 

I will test thinks with proxies.

 

I think of the belle, necropunk, rogue necromancy and bete noire.

[Mason]

 

And what about the dead rider? I am talking about the good looking miniatures

 

I've used the Dead Rider a fair amount, and he's always been a joy to have riding around the battlefield scythe-dragging people behind him.  He's not a model that I take every game (he's a bit expensive @__@), but when he does hit the table, he definitely makes his presence known.  If you do decide to pick him up, I don't think he'll disappoint you (especially if you're running a master like Nicodem that can heal him up in a pinch). 

[Brightmore]

*shrug* If they work for you, great. For me even with Seamus who I play a lot they have never seemed like anything other than an expensive trap. I get almost no real use from them against anyone who knows what they are doing, and I don't need them against people who don't. I get much more utility with them with Spirit based Molly, and by extension, Nicodem.

 

For me, in general, if the opponent knows a Hanged is on the table they are going to save the card they need to overcome Whispers when it comes in, and then they kill the Hanged. It's happened to me against too many good opponents to really rate them much as anything but summon bait.

 

That said, these are my experiences against people in my area(s). Best recommendation, proxy them and see how they work for you and your environs. 

I agree with this, I have tried the hanged a few times with Seamus and found it to not great. The Hanged isn't tough enough to get stuck in against most crews, couple that with Incorporeal is not as strong as it was(there are a ton of stuff that does damage that isn't SH, or MI), it makes his Aura really just not come up much. The Horror test on his gun is pretty nice, but I frequently find that he is easily played around.

 

Another one of his problems is his points slot is in stiff competition land. Sybelle is a house, particularly with Bleeder Lash, Mort is very good. For one more point you get Izamu, or Rogue, both very strong, and if your hung up on the shooting, a Guild Autopsy projects similar damage(though not as much tech), for significantly less investment.  I have never got much use of Whispers, but maybe that is on me.

 

Speaking to Dead Rider, he is insane with Nicodem, but most high pointed models are. Think of it this way, if he Rigor's a 12 point model. he is getting a 50% output increase on 12 points, that generally is a much higher quality Rigor then say on a 4 point guild autopsy, couple that with his healing from Decay and he can make dead rider unstoppable.  

[Fetid Strumpet]

For Jonah:

In answer to the question of why I find them better with Molly or Nicodem... because I summon them. I NEVER hire a hanged. As I said while they are good, they are too fragile, and their ability you are really paying for is only good against specific targets for a limited amount of time. Please understand I'm not knocking Whispers, its great, but consider if I need to kill your little objective runner with four wounds, if I succeed once, you now have 2 wds, if I do it again, you now have 1 wd. So it's going to take 3 ap from a hanged to kill your tiny guys. Sure using him on a 10+ wound model the first time is amazing, but his effectiveness rapidly diminishes from there on out. So I really only need a hanged for that 1 shot, and anything else with him is just nice to have. 

 

Well, hire one, and they KNOW that attack is possible and will be coming. If they are at all knowledgeable about the game, and it actually matters if you use it on one of their scary pieces, they are going to plan for it. They are going to hold the card that will get them past your attack, and will save it until you come in, then they will kill the hanged. While the odds say they won't always have the counter, they will have it enough times to make your investment in a Hanged a bit of a gamble, and at its bedrock foundation, Malifaux is a game about efficiency. I'm happy to take a model that is somewhat fragile, but expensive if it will 85% of the time achieve something I need done before it goes down, I tend to find the Hanged is a good investment only 55% to 65% of the time, and the times that he isn't that massive loss of investment when it doesn't pay off is a massive crippling blow that hurts the rest of the game.

 

That issue goes away completely if the model is summoned. While the opponent knows the summon is possible, and it's entirely possible they will play as if a hanged is on the table, that hurts them if the Hanged never shows up, and if it does, and they counter it, its much less of a failed investment than if I spend 9 stones instead of 1AP and a stone (and corpse). And even if the summoned Hanged comes in with low wounds as was mentioned, I only need it to get through 1 attack to be worth his investment. Additionally he is going to take at least 1 AP to remove from the board, and the opponent is going to do so, so not only is he a worthwhile gamble on the summon, but he's as good as slowing one enemy model just by his existence, because they are going to spend that AP to try to kill him.

 

They just work so much better as a pop up summon I find. I'm sure I would have similar comments on Kirai, but I haven't really played her much in 2E.

[AngryMojo]

I've had a lot of luck with my flesh constructs.  They're big ol' sacks of wounds, and the threat of ceaseless advance makes them more than worth their summon cost if the schemes are right.  I've had opponents frightened of cheating because they know that construct might just deliver a message.