Help with Hoffman, please!

[Aramasu]

So during 1.5, I was a huge Hoffman fan and played him all the time. I'm now just getting into 2.0 after taking a break from miniatures games, I've got my arsenal decks so I can use my new models until I can muster the cash for when the shiny new plastics come out, and I'm wondering: just how is my favorite gearhead faring? I've read up on the PullMyFinger wiki, so from what I gather: The protect chain is out. Hunters are good (great?) models now. The hilarity of Open Circuit is gone. Hoffman has lots of stat-sharing shenanigans. Watchers are even better objective grabbers. But overall, how are most people building a complete 50SS crew with him? Can he do most objectives well? I played my first game of Malifaux after my break against the 2.0 Viktorias and I just had to shrug my shoulders and go through the motions after a Fast, Melee Expert, turbo-buffed Viktoria of Blood knocked out my Peacekeeper and I was out of the game. Do I need to bring multiple high point models? What's the best general setup with him? Tell me everything. I'm a sponge. o.o

[rb_man]

He is kind of a death ball. I see most people going Hoffman, Guardian, Peacekeeper, Maincal Attendant and maybe Ryle. Just staying in power loop because then everything is DF, WP, MI, SH, and CA 6 or better with some   here and there. Also a lot of healing from Hoffman with Arcanist Assets and Field Mechanic plays and even some from Ryle. I think Hunters are kind of Meh there combo is so specific that is almost impossible to pull off if the other player has any idea what they do. Also they are DF 5 on 50mm with only armor +1 so they get swarmed easy I had 1 killed by 2 Gremlins. He is super activation depend so watch your self and expect a lot of hoffmans actions to be casing power loop.

 

Here is a list I have used 2 times

 

Hoffman

+Arcanist Assets

+Field Mechanic

+On Site Assimilation

Maincal Attendant

Ryle

Peacekeeper

Guardian

2 x Hunters

 

the good thing about this this list is the main ball can be a huge pain in the ass and be just control the board.

 

The bad fairly immobile once it gets set in direction and poor flank control and not a lot of shooting

 

The main things I would say that did not work was the Hunters they are just not that great for objective running not for 7ss and when the guild still has Hounds. 

Like once you take the big ball you really want models that can do everything by themself like the Pale rider, Wastrels, Guild Riflemen, or Guild Hounds.

Even stuff like Guild Lawyers give some great utility by giving Hard to Wound and Fees debuff.

I have been meaning to try him with a Warden they are great at 6ss.

 

 

I hope my rambling help in anyway. 

[MalifauxMartin]

Hi there. I've been playing Hoffman a lot in a league at my club. He's been a lot of fun.

I rarely extend the power loop beyond the one model he gets for free. I always take arcanist assets so I can get a metal gamin. This goes in the loop to make Hoff CA8, up to CA10 because he nearly always has 2 constructs in range. This makes all his spells so easy to cast that you can use your low cards to cheat in the suits you need for triggers. Low rams now equal fast peacekeepers from machine puppet, which is great.

Try to take OSA as well. You can give slow to the gamin once mid-board and get fast on Hoff, so more peacekeeper actions!

A nice early move is machine puppet to get the peacekeeper forward, dragging Hoff along, then harpooning and enemy and dragging it in. Then PK activates to flurry. With upgrades PK and be ARM+3 and if you take mobile toolkit ARM+4!

Most of Hoffs crew is expensive so watchers are great for scheme runners and bodies for reconnoiter etc.

 

I don't often take the guardian, it just seems too expensive. Wardens are great as the targeting 0 upgrade gives rams to get paralyzed trigger off. I think hunters have there place, but don't want to be too isolated. They work well as another drag to pull models towards the PK.

 

I also find that Hoffman doesn't need too many stones in the cache, so spend your points on upgrades or models.

 

Just experiment, Hoffman is lots of fun to play, can't wait for plastic models! 

[Aramasu]

What's the general opinion on Joss? With his Hard to Kill -> Reactivate shenanigans, it feels like all those healing flips and buffs that Hoffman can hand out would be amazing. And how do upgrades work with hired Arcanist models in his crew?

[Ausplosions]

What's the general opinion on Joss? With his Hard to Kill -> Reactivate shenanigans, it feels like all those healing flips and buffs that Hoffman can hand out would be amazing. And how do upgrades work with hired Arcanist models in his crew?

Arcanists hired by Hoff can only take Guild Upgrades.

[Bengt]

A nice early move is machine puppet to get the peacekeeper forward, dragging Hoff along, then harpooning and enemy and dragging it in. Then PK activates to flurry. With upgrades PK and be ARM+3 and if you take mobile toolkit ARM+4!

 

(1) Machine Puppet (Ca6R/ TN: 12R/ Rg: 6): Target friendly Construct takes a (1) Action which cannot declare any Triggers.

So you can't use the Drag trigger from Chain Harpoon.

[Godgolden]

Joss is and always will be the Boss.

Armour 2, movement 5, ignores everything but incorporial when smacking dudes.

You can in theory make him nimble, fast and use all your master AP to manipulate him.

He is also incredibly difficult to kill, especially with Hoffman repairing him.

 

To be honest, i've used Hoffman an aweful lot, he has some astounding issues dealing with specific situations but is incredibly adept at others, he is incredibly hard to pin down and moderately hard to kill, you will find when fighting TT you will pretty much be fighting Kang, this turns your damage soaking kill-bots into tea-drinking ladies who find it hard not to fall over.

 

He has an issue when you need to spread out significantly, whe repelling a horde of able guardsmen for example, settig up turn 1 is specifically especially important, this can be mitigated somewhat with machine puppet but sometimes it just cant be repaired and your guys are just in the wrong spots.

 

The Hunter is great, not for every job or every game but he does good damage and his chain spear is just unkind, slow is a powerful, powerful debuff when you can apply it at range, the +flips from unactivated models helps him shoot people in cover quite alot too, the push effect is also simply great, largly ignore his pounce, as in dont worry about it too much, if you can use it, great! if not, carry on.

 

Guardian is an auto-take for me, I abuse power loop alot, sending in Melee 7 kill-bots is just what the ladies like, he can also heal, yeah he can totally heal, this always suprises people and stacked ontop of Hoffman and Ryle, its an amusing event, espeically as whatever he heals gets defensive 2, he is also melee range 3", this is just lollerskates on beatsticks with melee 2", walk, buff, walk, prevent charge and laugh, he's fairly tough but canbe brought low with a dedicated beater, but then your guardian is dead... and your beater isnt.

 

Mechanical Attendant is an autotake aswell for me, simply to give him slow, thats his entire life to me, until something, somewhere comes along (im watching you Kang) with an aura that simply 'cannot be' then you stand him within 3" and well.. it turns it off, whats that Nicodem? you give general buffage to your guys? not this round buddy, oh im sorry you caused how many blasts? well we don't like blasts here.. so no thankyou. He becomes the most primary of primary targets as people do NOT like their auras/blasts/pulses to be stopped, it also suprises people, he doesnt have armour and his life is not particularly high so if targetted, he will go down, mine killed a warpig once, best moment of his life (Hee hee Connor... hee hee).

 

Ryle, this guy is a beast, he is the last word in flat damage output, but he doesnt ignore armour or triggers, he is not the toughest hombre but he isnt a slouch, he can repair or push, give him nible and suddenly he is quite mobile, his gattling cannon is ok, people love it but I consider it a secondary choice to smashing peoples faces in with his fist, overall a good choice but Joss well.. its a very hard decision if you don't wanna take both, if you get a red joker in hand... well.. you can one shot masters if they dont think to stone defence.

 

Mobile toolkit, red joker in hand you say? need a positive flip to damage you say? this guy is the man, runs around like a headless chicken buffing or supplying an alternative for slow (Hoffman does like power....) yea he can buff to hit, to wound or armour, never used the armour one yet but its a good option, his main thing is countering negatives, he buffed to hit on Langston once so Lang could charge the Pangalang, minimum damage 4, dead in 2 hits, almost impossible without the toolkit, not always ideal but when you absolutely have to kill... his buffs are also for the turn, so Hoffman can machine puppet till it's definitely dead... fine paste, puréed.

 

Watchers, yeah everyone knows these guys rock, you can give out upgrades to make them better at their job or machine puppet them, very straight forward.

[MalifauxMartin]

(1) Machine Puppet (Ca6R/ TN: 12R/ Rg: 6): Target friendly Construct takes a (1) Action which cannot declare any Triggers.

So you can't use the Drag trigger from Chain Harpoon.

Sorry wasn't very clear. I meant get the PK in position, drag with the hunter, then flurry with PK.

[Ozymandias79]

I've played a few games with the Hoff recently and he certainly is one of the trickier masters for the Guild.  Activation order is pretty key (and he's one of the few masters I activate first on turn 1).  I've been really liking him with a PK, Ryle, Hunter, Watcher, and Guardian, plus whatever for flavor.  I was initially skeptical of the Guardian, but man, what an integral piece that is.  Giving out Df 6 and Ml 7 with Power Loop and then protecting your PK means that ANY beatstick in the game is going to have a rough time charging in to your crew.  I had a Rail Golem go straight at my PK, but thanks to the high Df and Protect, my PK took it on the chin, then flurried and killed the Rail Golem and was healed just about up to full again with Ryle and Hoffman (and went on to take out Mei Feng as well).  Meanwhile, my watcher is out scoring VP's after Hoffman suped up his already considerable interacting abilities.

 

It's a fun crew, so stick with it and keep playing.  It's not as point and click as Perdita for sure, but part of the fun is the challenge.  For the tl:dr, here are a few quick tips:

 

• Powerloop in the Guardian and at least whatever Beatstick you're using (PK is amazing).
• Stay together!  The crew functions best when supported by Hoffman and most of his abilities are pretty short ranged, stay close (Mechanical Attendant is good for mitigating the problems with staying close, namely blasts).
• Use the first turn to get your crew suped up with Field mechanic (an auto include)
• Activation order is incredibly important
• This one has got me a few times: Your models have big bases, make sure they don't crowd each other.  I've lost charge opportunities because my bases were too close together and I couldn't fit.

[MalifauxMartin]

Loads of good advice here. Looks like I need to run a guardian again and see if I can get more play out of him!

[Fenton Crack]

My son plays Hoffman, and exclusively Hoffman, and he absolutely struggles with Reconnoiter. I think it's just a strat that Hoff should not be taken for, but don't know what to say to him to help.

Any advice on Hoffman Reconnoiter builds from the Hoff vets here?

[entropolous]

If needed you can plant hunters on center lines and then push them into the quarter they are needed at the end of the turn using prowl.

 

Don't be afraid to take non-construct chaff to add bodies.  Guild hounds are great for recon: 3 stones, walk 6, and even though they are normally insignificant, they are still minions so count for recon.

[Myyrä]

Nvm me.

[Ozymandias79]

Loads of good advice here. Looks like I need to run a guardian again and see if I can get more play out of him!

 

I was pretty skeptical too... until I tried him.    

 

8 stones is a lot, but he gives so much to the rest of the crew: Df 6, Ml 7, protect for the double defensive and potential heal.  And he has a 3" melee range, which, despite his pretty crappy damage curve, can still reliably take the last couple wounds off of that annoying model or keep it in melee with his Ml 7.  Plus, you can keep him alive with his defensive trigger, throwing out low cards for the Armor 3!

The only reason I can think of not taking him is if you are relying on Howard Langstrom as your beater and he's already got Ml 7 (though the df 6 and protect is still pretty good).

[EnternalVoid]

My son plays Hoffman, and exclusively Hoffman, and he absolutely struggles with Reconnoiter. I think it's just a strat that Hoff should not be taken for, but don't know what to say to him to help.

Any advice on Hoffman Reconnoiter builds from the Hoff vets here?

 

Not that long ago I took Hoffman into Reconnoiter because I wanted to play him as I had painted some of his models *and of course then I go and flip it*.  What I ended up taking was Hoffman w/Arcanist Asset and Field Mechanic, the Rail Golem *as I did not have Joss with me*, 1 Watcher, 1 Metal Gamin, 2 Wardens, 2 Guild Guards, 2 Guild Hounds.  I missed the Guardian but the extra points were nice to get a 10 crew count.  Was up against a fairly large Nico crew as well, just his could come back when they died and had Mort so he had the ability to generate corpse markers too.

 

My plan ended up being having the two guards and hounds hold one quarter and dug in real nice *I had protect Territory as well* while Hoffman buffed his constructs with some upgrades and had one of the Wardens pull him foward.  My plan boiled down to seeing if he was going to dedicate anything to the guards and hounds and what he was going to do to try and hold his 2 quarters and how best to react to this.  He ended up initially sending two canine remains up one quarter while Nico took command of the rest in the other quarter.  Using my numbers I let alot of his stuff activate before I used Machine puppet to put a Warden in position *it had the upgrade for the extra Ram* to charge one of the hounds and used my highest cards to insure I killed it  Suddenly thanks to that my warden was contesting that quarter with the remaining dog and I was threatening to have my watcher run in to claim it *the other warden ended up doing it so my watcher could do something else*.  Basically I used numbers to see where stuff went then used Hoffman to get my models where they could actually start denying quarters.

 

Game actually got rather tight when I realized the watcher could not deliver the message to Nico, as neither of them had a melee range they could not engage each other.  Hoffman had to deal with some Necopunks and a summoned canine remain trying to pin him down to delivery the message.

[Aramasu]

Nice strategy! I thought every model had a 1" Bash (0/1/3?) as a generic action, though? Or was that removed in the shift from 1.5 to 2.0? I'll be playing a rematch against the Viktorias today, so I'll give an update later tonight.

[Bengt]

Nice strategy! I thought every model had a 1" Bash (0/1/3?) as a generic action, though? Or was that removed in the shift from 1.5 to 2.0? I'll be playing a rematch against the Viktorias today, so I'll give an update later tonight.

The only generic actions in M2E are Walk, Charge, Interact, Focus, Defensive Stance. The only attacks available to a model are listed on its card.

[Bacms]

Since he came out I have been playing him almost exclusive in tournaments. He was my favourite master in 1.5 and still is in M2E. If you check my rankings you will easily understand why. 

 

The way I play him is always with a destruction ball with the Peacekeeper, Hoffman and Guardian. It is a lot of points and its main weakness are he can be easily swarmed by summoners and as always was stay far away from models that can ignore armour. But I use this ball mainly for distraction. A peacekeeper with Df and Defensive +2 will take a lot of punishment, add to that the ability of both Hoffman and Guardian to heal him and your opponent will be wasting a lot of activations dealing with that.

 

Meanwhile my watcher and/or SS miner will be achieving my scheme points. Watcher with Programmed directive is one of the best scheme runners on the game. It is also easy to hide with height one. The soulstone miner is also another one of the models that puts your opponent at a back foot as you can choose to have him pop out at a location he left open.

[Adran]

I faced  hoffman list with 2 watchers and 4 hounds in a Stake a claim game. It worked really well, with Hoffman and his trusty peackeeper holding up much of my crew whilst the rest ran around my forces and were able to drop so many claim markers.

 

When you select Hoffman you want to include some constructs, btu you don't need to be exclusivley construct.

[MasterDisaster]

It's not suprising you got wrecked by the Viks. Hoffman tends to group up with his crew which is prime whirlwind territory for the Viks. Especially if Blood is buffed to the teeth and has The Mark of Shez'uul. I'd recommend taking a MEtal Gamin with him though, the Ca 8 from Magnetism included in the power loop is just too good too pass up in his crew. 

[Aramasu]

Yeah, I just played against them again tonight and this time took a bigger group of beefier models to have a chance of duking it out and even though I barely advanced my crew, I just had to sit there and buff up while he moved his Ronin, Taelor, and other models around to actually get in position for objectives... and Viktoria of Blood STILL jumped across the board and managed to one-activation-kill Ryle barely inches away from my deployment zone. I've never played a matchup so frustrating where I feel like I have zero chance of winning. If we keep trading models in combat, it's trading game where I already start with fewer models if I want to have a chance of fighting and it only gets worse from there. I feel like I can't do anything about the Viktorias rocket, because I can't even take a Hoffman objective based crew since I'll just get bullied around and killed or he'll take all the objectives. Is there any way to win this matchup short of them flipping all low cards and having nothing in hand? At this point I feel like if my opponent declares Outcasts, I need to just switch to Sonnia. It's frustrating to the point of making me not want to even give 2.0 a chance when the matchup feels so one-sided even if I barely move.

[EnternalVoid]

Question, how exactly is he throwing the Blood Vik across the board on turn 1?  There are a couple ways to try this but each one has their own order to them.  Perhaps some advice how to disable that trick might be in order here more than general Hoffman suggestions.

[Aramasu]

From what I understand, he gives it fast with Student of Conflict, keeps line of sight with Viktoria of Ashes and pulls with Sisters in Spirit, then (since I was playing further back to try and avoid it) walked to line up a Charge and three attacks later, Ryle bit dust. The thing that annoys me is that I felt like couldn't do anything about it at all -- he activated his other models first, our strategy was Squatter's Rights so he put his models clearly in position while burning through my relevant activations, and Blood went last so it became a crapshoot of whether I could win initiative for the revenge kill... and even if I succeeded, I would have burned through several good cards just to end up not-really-even with him. Still salty. >_

[MasterDisaster]

It's as simple as this... Viks have a metric tonne of Ignore Armour, high melee stats and high damage profiles. Not every master is perfectly suited to beat every other master. Some have a rough time against others. I also struggle against the Viks with Hoffman. The Viks are designed to murder groups of clumped up enemies at a time, Hoffman's typical play style works to the Viks strengths. If you suspect the Hoff is in for a rough time, play a different Master. Sonnia and Co. can utterly wreck the Viks. Hoffman is capable of doing it as well but its more difficult because of the Viks way of kicking ya teeth in. Hoffman tends to be an incredibly frustrating Master for a lot of my opponents to play against but when they get salty with me for playing him they often crack out the Viks for some revenge. It's just how it is. No one Master will beat every other master every time. Eventually you will be able to give them a good kicking. Give them the double Austringer treatment for example. Pick off one of the Viks from a distance and stop the Blood Missile from happening, use Nino to lend a hand, use Wardens to try Paralyze them etc. There are plenty of tricks up Guild's sleeves to hamstring the Viks. Keep at it man, remember, they only have 7 wounds each!

[Aramasu]

I figured it was a really poor matchup. >: Just going to have to change up masters for it!