New model Idea for Guild, feedback is appreciated

[virtualonmars]

Hi!

I don't know if this is an appropriate place to put this, but I have an idea for a Guild Hound Caretaker model and would like some feedback from you guys

 

Guild Hound Caretaker – Minion, Living, Rare 1 (Cost: 7 Soulstones)

 

DF: 5

WP: 5

WD: 6

WK: 5

CH: 7

HT: 2

 

DF R Emergency Call: A Friendly Guild Hound model pushes their walk straight towards this model. After succeeding, immediately take a (1) AP Ml Attack Action against the target if it is in base contact with the attacking enemy model

Hound Whisperer: Friendly Guild Hound model receives a +1 to their WK value if activated within 3” of this model

Companion: After a friendly model ends its Activation within 6” of this model, this model may Activate immediately as a Chain Activation.

Pack Leader: Friendly Guild Hound models remove their Insignificant value and its restrictions.

 

Attack Actions

(1)    Signal Whip (Ml 5 / Rst: Df / Rg: y 1): Target suffers 1/3/4 damage.
R Critical Strike: When damaging the target, this attack deals +1 damage for each R in the final duel total.

 

Tactical Actions

(1)    Git Yer Treats!: Friendly Guild Hound models within 8” pushes their walk straight towards this model

[(Sarcasm)]

Ha! I'm listening to you on the Growling Cow right now!

I'm pretty new to the forums but I've gathered that 'the writing room' is the place for any creative work that isn't modelling/painting models - I think here is ok though.

The model looks cool but I'm not sure if two abilities that bring the hounds towards the caretaker is necessary - maybe replace one of them?

some kind of boost could be a trigger from signal whip so it can be used on hounds for a bonus (idk if this is feasible). With companion I think perhaps 'hound' models have less possible overpowered combos

[HowNot2Wargame]

OK......

What purpose does this model serve? It feels witching handler light. The def trigger is so specific I don't think it would come up. I push directly straight to you and then co-incidently be in an inch to attack the aggressor?

Not sure I want to turn them into rat catcher light either. How's about these as tactical actions?

(2) who cares if its not butchers meat? - hounds in an 8" pulse of this model may push to their nearest corpse counter immediately. If they do they must make an uncheatable 1/2/3 straight flip.

Note: no limit on how far away the corpse token should be, just that it is the nearest.

(1) fetch that stick! This model may pull any guild hound within 8" towards him. If they were base to base with any markers, they are removed and then place base to base with this model.

(1) yap at them boys! - any guild hounds within 6" gain 'bark worse then bite' condition. Guild hounds may not take walk, charge or melee actions but enemy models may not take interact actions within 3" of them.

(O) you want me to tickle your tummy? - this model removes all conditions on any hounds within base to base contact of him

[Dirial]

Pack Leader is a big deal here. During the beta, Insignificant was heavily discussed for Guild Hounds, because they become near mandatory scheme runners for Guild without it. Clearly paying 7 SS to lose it would take care of that problem, but it would need thorough testing nonetheless.

 

The trigger is a bit too much, I think. It's a movement and attack trigger on one Ram. If you want such an ability, I would try it via a condition like 

(1) Emergency Call: Place the following Condition on this model: "Get him, Boy: After this model takes damage, you may end this condition to allow a friendly Guild Hound within 8 to Charge the model that damaged you. The Guild Hound receives to damage flips until this Charge is resolved."

 

@HowNot2Wargame: Nononono, no, no condition removal for Guild! They already have 7 models who do that, Mercs not included. There should be a really, really good reason before another one gets it.

[HowNot2Wargame]

Question is... Is insignificant such a deal breaker with a 3pt model that taking mc cabe and then luna for pack leader is such a negative?

Point taken I guess, but I guess I would just get some watchers instead if I really need scheme runners to take a 7pt model.

[virtualonmars]

great feedback here guys, really appreciate it!

[Hateful Darkblack]

Love the proposal! I think you wrote it well. You kept the 6 total abilities/actions that is standard for a Minion.

 

On its own, it looks very nicely balanced. In a Crew, I can kinda see problems - either it stacks with Luna or it replaces her.

 

Here's what it looks like to me: this looks like a model that is very similar to Luna - a model that speeds up Guild Hounds and makes them lose Insignificant. If you're playing a McCabe crew, this doubles up a lot of the bonuses and takes them over the top. If you're playing a non-McCabe Crew, you're pretty much stealing McCabe's schtick.

 

I'd suggest, rather than abilities that are similar to Luna's (raise Hounds' Wk, remove Insignificant), you think about other things a model could do to boost Guild Hounds. Maybe give a little Armor, or heal them, or make an aura where hounds get a bonus to Ml equal to the number of friendly Hounds engaged.

 

I really like the trigger. The idea that the guy's defense is a dog bites you if you attack him is awesome. I'd suggest a simpler rephrase, though: "Df/Wp ® After resolving this action, a friendly Hound within LoS Charges the attacking model if able."

 

Another suggestion: You could make the Guild Hound Caretaker an Enforcer, and then have a few different Upgrades for different sets of benefits they can give.

 

Also, maybe it'd be nice if Marcus could hire this guy too?

 

On a more meta note, it seems like the place where custom models fit best into M2E is in a particular scenario, rather than an overall supplement. I suspect you'll see more traction on scenario-specific models rather than general models. Just a thought.

 

(One thought for that: if there was a fox-and-hound type of scenario, this model could be a mercenary that lets anyone hire Hounds. Then one side are the Foxhunters and the other side are the Foxes.)

[Hateful Darkblack]

(Also, I spent like 15 minutes trying to Google for cool archaic names for a hound caretaker. "Kennelman" and "Houndmaster" are the only ones I could find. For all that medieval English was full of obscure hunting terms, there are very few for the people in charge of the dogs.)

[Mason]

Master of the Hunt, perhaps?

[The Godlyness]

Shrike?

[dgraz]

 

Another suggestion: You could make the Guild Hound Caretaker an Enforcer, and then have a few different Upgrades for different sets of benefits they can give.

 

Also, maybe it'd be nice if Marcus could hire this guy too?

Both no. Specific Upgrades for Enforcers would create far too many upgrades........adding an upgrade for an Enforcer would be something you only did if there was a balance issue I think.

 

Marcus does not need this guy. Hounds can already be buffed by Marcus crews because they are Beasts. It would be different if Hounds couldn't do something without him.....like Pigs....then I could see making him a Merc like the Hog Whisperer.

 

---

 

I like the idea of a model like this to make Hounds better with other Guild Masters but I might strongly consider a rule disallowing you to hire him with Luna on the table. Maybe something like:

The Alpha Dog: This model may not be hired in crews that contain Luna.

 

I also agree with others that it shouldn't steal Luna's thing and instead seek other ways to buff Hounds.

 

Instead of removing Insignificant, maybe increase the range of the Pack Mentality Aura? 

 

Or go a different direction and make them more melee oriented (like an earlier Play test thing).....The old Pack Mentality also gave them a +1 ......so their melee attacks were stronger.

 

How about an action that allows a Hound to immediately drop a Scheme Marker? This could be a pseudo way to get around the Insignificant problem....but could also be a Charge set-up maneuver. I'd probably have it be mid-range Ca Action with a suit requirement in the TN........

 

.......and I'd probably give him Accomplice instead of Companion. So he/she can buff Hounds then 'order' them on their way.

[Fireuser]

I am pretty sure that one of the design goals was to eliminate "this model cannot be hired with the one other specific model", a.k.a. the old animosity.  If this could not be hired with Luna, then it should probably be tweaked so that it can be; or, you could make it a totem.

[dgraz]

It's true and you should certainly try. But those things do still exist and it may be the only option in some cases. Especially in something that's going to buff a model in conjunction with what another model already does.