Maniacal_cackle

@Graf I'll put him on the test list (could probably replace Archie). I worry cards will be a problem with him (high target number, attacks, etc). And yeah, cards might have been tricky some turns if Reva survived. But turns 1 and 2 for example I only drew one severe and it was fine. That Whisper made a huge difference for Seamus (like at one point he had a 2, 2, 7, so I used focus to eat both the 2s, cheated my only severe, then used the 7 for damage to one shot a silurid). Will see how it goes next time!

Some things explicitly do not stack (such as auras). Other things are redundant (such as ruthless - having multiple ways of gaining ruthless does not do anything). Yet other things stack numerically (armor +1 stacks with armor +1 for +2). For effects generated by actions, they'll generally each apply I believe. So in this case, using it twice should give you two positives, an attack each time you use the ability, and then at the end of the activation you either add two soulstones or take 4 + 4 irreducible damage. Note technically they'll have to resolve separately, so if for whatever reason it matters that it is two separate sources of damage, he isn't taking 8 damage. He is taking 4 damage twice. EDIT: Oh, like his Hard to Kill. If he starts at 5 life or less when this happens, he'll die. That's my reading of it anyway. EDIT 2: Note that this is not exactly 'stacking'. Rather it is just generating the effect twice and you're applying each of those generated effects. They are separate from each other, resolve at separate times, etc. But the plusses of course effectively stack up, just like plusses from any source stack.

Oh, one more thing I think I should comment on: Mindless Zombies felt like a really good idea in theoryfaux, and I didn't get the chance to use them in practice... But I think in reality they actually wouldn't work with this crew. Mindless zombies can't activate the turn they are summoned, so it is going to take a full turn to get them to where you want them to be. There's lots of methods of getting corpse markers into position slowly, so the mindless zombies don't fix the problem I thought they did. Corpse candles do to a degree since they can activate the turn they're summoned, but I consider that more corpse marker repositioning (since they eat an old marker). However, it is very useful that you can eat corpse candles with other models, leave behind a pyre marker, then turn that pyre marker back into a walking corpse. I also found them some pretty fabulous strategic nukes for hazardous (at one point I actually attacked my own corpse marker just to put a hazardous marker underneath Zoraida).

Thanks! I love that there's so much brewing possible in Malifaux! For this crew specifically, I think the Grave Golem might be a good tank option because he can go to one place and hold it. I felt like I had tons of potential to wipe out anything anywhere on the board, but what I didn't have was the ability to hold a point. I really would have liked something in the centre of the board just making everything awkward for my opponent (try to break up the crew and go around me, get wiped out by my beaters. Bubble in the centre, get bogged down by Grave Golem). Will test it someday hopefully! That said, I'm much more fond of the grave golem than a lot of people seem to be. I've only had one game where I took it and felt it was a mistake (I probably take it in 10-20% of games). Plus I have a home-made sculpt of it! Haha, didn't realise until after the game >.< Yeah, I had 2/3 on full power, but Reva died early in turn 2. I over extended before the corpse markers were down. A bit more patience/setup of the board would have really helped my cause I think. I used two corpses turn 1 for GST (which also means the gravedigger isn't making any corpses). There's the additional problem of it can be awkward to place them where I want them to be. By turn 3, the whole board was covered in corpse markers (though Reva was dead at that point). I just need an efficient way to get corpses where I need them turns one and two. And it was awkward finding places for Seamus to eat corpses, but that is because I never went more than 19" deep on the board with him, so I could have been more aggressive with him. Mourner seems like it adds a lot of what I want: an extra corpse on turn one, a decent schemer, scarlet temptation + weeping widow can make for some horribly awkward checks against Seamus, Disguised + hard to wound so it is an annoying schemer to kill, Mourn the Dead for corpses as schemes when necessary (often you have a pile of 3-4 corpse markers from a battle and then placing corpses near models, so that's potentially a pile of 3-4 scheme markers). I guess it has stuff under the attack actions section of its card, but that wouldn't be the first use (although since the whole crew starts with two focus, I found that every single model packed an offensive punch without needing to cheat cards). Which leaves the question of how to get corpses in the right spot, and I think to some degree I could try to rely on high crows with dismembers and bone piles to get the corpses. And bone piles are just a great all around model! There's so many cool playstyles, will do something fun regardless. And I'm sure in a few weeks time if I ask someone specifically to play me on a double master game, I'll find someone! But may wait a few weeks.

I agree it might not be good for new players (although worth a go!), but personally I'm getting pretty stoked about trying this format or something similar. Locally we're getting a bit sick of elite crews (my Archie + Dead Rider for instance is pretty ridiculous...), so it'll be refreshing to play a game with some restrictions. Not sure if we'll try exactly this, but next week we'll go with "only one model over 8 stones (other than your leader)."

@Mikes glad it was overall a good learning experience! If you have access to it, also consider swapping the dead rider or Manos for the emissary. I don't think emissary fits very well into a Molly crew, but Dead Rider is absolutely amazing. I hear Manos is as well.

Just tested out a poor version of the list on plant explosives against Zoraida (just threw something together with models on hand, even had a crooligan). Lost the game (5-6), but the idea definitely has potential. Archie + Reva + Seamus provides such a powerful core. They all have incredible threat ranges (assuming corpse markers), can dish out loads of damage, and also have tremendous scheming power (all of them can move well over 10 inches and plant a bomb, scheme marker, etc). The three can rotate between key objectives, aggression against back-liners, and destroying their scheme runners. That said, I do wonder if the crew needs a tank (Reva and Seamus are so squishy), and wonder if Grave Golem would be better than Archie. I had not realised that hurl corpse places the corpse marker whether or not it hits. That's tremendously powerful, and I hope to experiment with it more sometime. Weirdly I did not have any issues with having enough cards (I did end up taking The Whisper on Seamus because of his secret passage). But between that upgrade and the 2 focus to everyone on turn one, I actually felt pretty okay on the card front. This was partially because I used a rotation strategy for my beaters (there was no turn where Archie, Reva, and Seamus all acted as a beater). Definitely did not have enough corpse markers. Felt starved for them all game. The list really depends on whether or not you can get corpse markers to key locations. I really struggled with that with my first attempt (didn't realise Reva needs corpse markers to make corpse candles... xD). It is possible that the crew simply won't be good because it takes too much effort to put down corpse markers. But if you could have corpse markers placed so efficiently they were always available, the crew would be solid. For my next attempt, what I'll try is: Seamus + The Whisper Copycat Killer Reva Archie Mourner Gravedigger Bone Pile + Grave Spirit's Touch 2 stones. Archie and Bone Pile can deliver corpses at range, Mourner and Gravedigger give you your turn 1 corpses. I also felt several times "man, I wish I had Mourners aura to turn corpses into scheme markers" since gravedigger can only do it end game. And of course, all the minions can be placed in positions where if your opponent kills them, you still get a corpse marker in a useful location! It is likely correct to drop the GST upgrade and have four stones to work with. The crew doesn't need offensive stones, but some defensive ones would be good. However, when learning crews, I prefer to minimise stones to force myself to learn to play it efficiently. EDIT: We're a bit sick of elite crews locally, though, so it may be a while before I get to test this list and report back!

Glad I could help! One quick note here though. Malifaux uses a ton of terrain (40-50% of the table should be covered in terrain). It can be super easy to make forests as you just need a base and then throw 2-3 trees on there. Without lots of terrain, shooting crews will be extremely powerful and some crews' abilities won't work. It'll be fine for practice games to have not much terrain, but it will have a noticeable effect eventually.

Curious if you have play tested it yet? Keen to hear how it went!

Great list to learn the game, but you'll find some scenarios you really lack killing power. You'll also find that is way too much scheming power for many games. Forgotten is hyper efficient at scheming, so you can make do with far less. My suggestion is to just field something (anything), and then get a feel for the game. Your list will change from game to game as you build to scenarios anyway. Or are you trying to plan purchases?

Welcome! I gotta say, there are so many things that don't make sense initially (like Pandora), the best thing you can do is buy a core box and play some practice games. It will start to make a lot more sense, and it is cheap to try a crew. The combined boxes are awkward, but at the same time it makes it much easier to flesh out a crew. Most models play at least a potential role, so can be useful to have. That said, I'm super budget and quite conservative with my purchases. So far I'm finding most masters you can play with core box + one other box (especially at a casual level). Few models are absolute musts, so you can usually manage. There is also quite a bit of scope for innovation combining stuff across multiple crews. For instance Eternal Servitude in ressers gives you an awesome array of models you can throw into lots of different crews. So keep an eye out for this. The game does have a massive learning curve, but I think it is worth it. Similar to Magic the Gathering, there is just so much depth to the game and metas. Also I personally don't find sculpts that big a factor, but I have found sculpts I didn't initially like have grown on me over time. One final note is that it is super hard to understand a crew by reading it. I've been playing for almost a year and still find a massive difference between reading a crew and seeing it on the table. There are so many unintuitive synergies built in. So if you love the look of Neverborn, it may be worth trying them out. Or come over to the Neverborn forum and ask about playstyles. Anyway, welcome! Given your post, I suspect you're going to get hooked super hard when you start playing. My suggestion is to start small, then assess whether you want to try a different playstyle or stick with the crew/faction.

I'd probably go with Molly (Forgotten). She can handle a very wide range of pools, and has some excellent counters to other crews (conditions and markers). Downside is she can't handle every opponent (like Shenlong). She is my best master overall, though, so she's what I'd go with. Dreamer (Nightmare) would be a close second. He has such a huge pool and range of playstyles I feel like you can build him to handle almost anything. He would be weak at corrupted idols, except Ancient Pact is a thing. He is vulnerable to Ruthless as stated above, but I think that's fine. Every crew is going to be weak to something, and at least Ruthless can be mitigated by positioning and taking down critical ruthless targets (or by building a non-terrifying list).

I'm down to 5-6 stones on Dreamer, and less on Pandora. When I learn a new master, I intentionally cut myself short on stones to force myself to be a lot more conscientious about what I'm stoning for. I eventually relax the restriction, but as a result, I'm pretty stone efficient in most of my games. Although I definitely lose some games early on from not having stones when I need them xD In general, stoning to prevent damage is pretty inefficient if you can avoid it. The best way to avoid damage is to not get hit (either by killing anything that gets near your key models or putting so much pressure they can't dedicate enough resources to killing your or just superior positioning). That said, having stones available to prevent damage is pretty crucial. There's been loads of times where opponents have thought about attacking one of my models, and realised they couldn't actually kill me because I had stones to prevent damage, so just did something else instead. EDIT: Another thing about my playstyle is that if someone kills my master, it is... fine. Even if they kill Dreamer at the end of turn 3, unless they have assassinate or reckoning, that just means they dedicated tons of resources to wiping out a model that was in a pretty safe place, while I was focused on securing victory points. EDIT2: Pandora... yeah, she dies tons. I'm not good with her yet. Too aggressive with Mood Swings.

Ahahahahha, best tip ever. Thanks!

I have not played Forgotten Marshal, but I sometimes would if I owned that box. If you do use him, you want to make full use of his abilities (he is a powerful gunner for ressers) as well as summoning when you can pull it off. He also gives you a really good use for rams - a focused rams attack is going to do an average of 4 damage at 12", with the option to cheat to 6. That is a hell of a hit. If the opponent doesn't take him seriously and kill him, his ability to summon turn 4 night terrors to secure points turn 5 will win games. The model demands respect. On paper he is pretty fragile though. I imagine he will die a lot. But if a seven stone model forces your opponent to come hunt him down, that can be a worthwhile strategy in the right situations. The Whisper is definitely a double edged sword on him. On the one hand, it is great. On the other, at 9 stones you should consider upgrading to 10 stone Toshiro for even better summons (assuming corpse marker access). Archie is crazy good, but he is also way overhyped. You can do neat things without him, don't feel like your crew will be worthless if you can't get a hold of Archie. That said, he is one of the best models for Forgotten (and he carries crooligans in his pocket, best crooligan delivery system available). If you're going crooligan heavy, he is a must. But honestly there is plenty of space to explore night terror lists where you don't rely on Archie as much. For your list, I think you'll feel the lack of Archie for those two crooligans. You could manage if you get a dead rider to cart around other teleport beacons (Molly or Necrotic Machine), but your list feels tricky. Either get some night terrors to replace the crooligans or snag an Archie. Just my two cents! If aiming for tournament play, get Archie for sure. But for casual games you'll be fine with the above.

Have we talked about leap yet? Models with leap have a very high tendency to be very powerful (Archie, Manos, First Mate, Silurids, necropunks, etc). Does Leap need a change to be "completely within 6" rather than "within 6"? I believe many place effects were changed before launch to be completely within (such as flight), but leap is an outlier in this regard.

Are you sure? The HH rules say: Since it can never exceed 3, I'd read that as even in game?

Oh, sorry, those are for scheme markers! Molly's lost knowledge is the only one for shadow markers, but that is pretty significant.

The henchman Hardcore rules are: From Gaining Grounds Zero. I don't see anything in there that prevents a replace, so should be good to go! Replacement is a distinct mechanic from summoning. They're not the same thing. Effigies ignore Helping Hand (free cost if you have a Henchmen leader), but I'm not sure they're actually banned from taking the Effigy of Fate upgrade (after all, there is a solid chance the model will be dead by turn 3). Although I may have missed the obvious xD

I would imagine the format might become a bit strange if you're stuck with your keyword models but can't go over 7SS. If you took Philip and the Nanny, for example, you'd be stuck with Crooligans, Rabble Risers, and night terrors. Your Forgotten Marshal couldn't summon so wouldn't be worth taking. If you take Lord Chompy Bits/Widow Weaver, you're stuck with minions + Bandersnatch. The 7SS rule significantly narrows what models you can actually take, so makes sense to have some mechanism for avoiding this. Should make for more viable crews. That's my impression, anyway!

Crooligans can teleport anywhere and eat a marker (though the timing of it is unclear as to whether you eat the marker before or after the move, I think most people would lean towards after the move). Molly can remove a marker anywhere on the table with her crows trigger, which is absolutely nuts. She can also Lost Knowledge nearby markers to draw cards. Crooligans can use their bonus actions to remove markers. Overall, the crew is just stupidly efficient at removing scheme markers.

Neat! I assume the Henchman can be more than 7 (since you're not paying for it?). Also looks like the Henchman gets 3 actions, is that intentional?

Detonate charges can be done with a crooligan + "One More Question" with a scheme marker trigger. A bit clunky as it has to be done in that order, but still an option to be aware of. On the bright side, super easy to do if they're engaging Molly and not one shotting her (which Shenlong might do).

A couple of tips! Mindless Zombies don't count for Hold Up Their Forces (they're insignificant). Shenlong and Misaki are both extremely kill-y crews. You might be able to sneak the first point on claim jump, but they'll probably kill the claim jumper afterwards. If you do go this route, take advantage of this. Make them spend lots of resources taking out your claim jumper while you're sorting out points elsewhere. Dig their graves can be super easy if you have a gravedigger, so worth considering taking one. Turf War, it can pay to go elite, so your crew looks pretty sweet on the face of it! Shenlong and Misaki are pretty maneuverable, but so are you... I don't know who will win in a game of cat and mouse, but be prepared to lure them into traps/support Archie when he goes off to play. Don't forget Archie can make a fantastic claim jumper - use the activation trick to get the last activation, then just have him leap into place at the last minute to snag a point. He'll die before the second point, but it is an easy score for the first point. Especially useful if you have claim jump + hold up their forces, so that when they come to kill Archie, you might score a point off of the hold up their forces. Make sure to blow up their scheme-runners. Their crews are extremely kill-y, with some scheme runners then going and securing points. Removing their scheme runners can cripple their crews, forcing them to score with elite models. Beware, the same strategy works against you! Crooligans are very good at hiding, thankfully, but be wary of them killing the models they can teleport to. That's just some thoughts! I've only played against Misaki once, so take my advice with grains of salt.

I wonder if they could also just give Reva an ability that says "As long as Reva is your leader, corpse markers count as hazardous (burning 1)". It'd merge several of her mechanics. Although it'd break their (unwritten?) rule about terrain markers always being 50mm.