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My most recent list (@retnab you saw this at Origins). Into Thunders Lynch: Ply for Information, Surround Them, Hold Up Their Forces, Search the Ruins, Recover Evidence, Vendetta Ramos - Cache 5 -Arcane Reservoir -Vox Populi -Leviathan Power Core Amina Naidu -Bleeding Edge Tech The Captain -Patrons Blessing Envy -Imbued Energies Union Steamfitter Medical Automaton Wind Gamin I think I lost this one 8-4 (something like that). Sorta shot myself in the foot by declaring Lynch as my Vendetta. It was a long weekend, and I forgot you can't take a Master as your Vendetta, so I was basically playing for 7 points. My opponent (who played incredibly well) quickly figured out why Amina was in the list, and triple lured her into position and just tore her apart. I learned that day that Lynch & friends are really really good at picking a target or two per turn and erasing them. Ramos has been my go to for Ply, since he and Amina can make two things a turn peons, and spiders can gang up on a peon and get lots of easy ply. What I've realized about that though, is that process works great if you are already winning, but it is a hard uphill battle if things don't go your way. Summoned spiders can't ply the turn they are summoned, but can be plied. Also, if they get Ply, they aren't exactly hard to kill, which is the easiest way to remove it. Ramos can certainly do it, but I will likely start using Ironsides for Ply

Building the crew to the scheme pool is sort of a core tenant of Malifaux, and is a huge draw for just about every player I've ever talked to. Also, what do you mean it takes to long? You likely spent hours upon hours building and painting your models, traveled (even if its just down the road) to the tournament, and you don't want to spend 5 minutes building a crew for the game you are going to spend the next 2+ hours playing? Crew building is my favorite part of this game. If Malifaux ever truly gets boiled down to what you are describing I know I probably would not play much longer.

That's the biggest worry for sure, but it was either that or Alps, and Wisps seemed a bit more useful. Unless I drop thousand faces, and have one 4 stone minion (effigy maybe? reasonably hard to kill)

@TeddyBear, whats up with the disagree?

Why is that?

Had a probably bad idea for a Henchman Hardcore list, let me know what you think. I realize there's a good chance it won't work, but I enjoy weird gimmicky lists to try. Bad Juju -Thousand Faces Nekima Will o Wisp Will o Wisp Idea is that turn 1, a will o wisp hits Juju for one damage, then it and the other one throw on as much call of the wisp as they can on the enemy crew to shut down charges. Then Juju walks up, maybe goes defensive. Nekima charges, kills Juju with her built in trigger to become the leader, and for the rest of the game you have a 4 AP Nekima with 6 stones for prevention, and 2 wisps to score points in the middle and shut down charges from the enemy. As a bonus, if I understand the timing correctly, Nekima becomes the leader before Thousand Faces resolves, so she gets a free 1 action turn one, to set up for a turn 2 charge, or to have an extra hit on an enemy if they've gotten close to Juju. Give me your thoughts

I've been seeing a lot about Bloodwretches lately, which is surprising because I've never heard of them used outside of the starter box

Im sure Wyrd would have love to get everything right the first time. But Malifaux is not a board game, self contained with a very limited number of mechanics to worry about. Instead it is a complex game with what, 700 different stat cards? I'm not sure of the actual number but its a rather large pool of things that have to be compared to and tested against during playtesting. Maybe they dropped the ball with some of the more recently released models, maybe it is the fact that you can't possibly test every single interaction with every other model and rule. Especially when you have an entire community of players specifically looking for the things that slipped through and are above the power curve. So if they can't get it right the first time around (which would be laughably difficult to achieve), what can they do to keep the game as balanced as possible? Regular and well thought out errata. As for your claim that they should make everything else in the game better, what seems like the easier method to playtest? Nerf the two masters that are breaking the game, or buff the 20-30+ masters that would need major tweaks to get to a similar level. That seems like a situation where some things would just get out of hand end up being even more broken than the current broken things. Eventually you end up with a system so busted, and every thing so powerful that its no longer fun for either player (looking at you competitive 40k)

I agree that Joss is no longer a 100% autotake like he used to be. I also have been taking him less, because, you are right, a 10 stone henchman with a severe damage of 4 really sucks. But I think he does still have legs in the right situation. If you need to sit and hold your backline, or sit in the middle for something like show of force, he is difficult to remove in most cases. And there are definitely games that I miss him when I don't take him. While capping out at 4 damage, apparently Ramos and Levi teamed up building his arc axe, because it ignores damn near everything short of soulstones. Shutting down the right defensive triggers can be huge in the right matchup. Unfortunately you often don't know you need that until it is too late

They are decent scheme runners, but I think you overestimate them. Canine remains are faster have the better -df ability, Necropunks leap and are df 5 HtW HtK, Crooligans are df 6 wp 5 and just flat out better scheme runners with their teleport. I don't think you can claim that Ramos can summon anything better than what Nico brings to the table. As for generating scrap markers I think you have it backwards. If I'm not actively making scrap I often don't have something within 6" of Ramos to summon off of, and Arcanists don't have a big mechanical taxi like the Kentauroi to move him around (maybe in wave 6?). Yes spiders die, but they are usually up the board, and if you swarm them together, it takes longer. There are also several abilities that require sacrificing them, so no scrap there. Unless you get lucky and face up against a construct heavy crew, your opponent is unlikely to be giving up much scrap you can use. But you know what the vast majority of models are? Living or Undead, and drop corpse markers all over the place

Continuing comparisons, lets take Ramos as an example, because he does seem to be the best direct comparison. Sure, he can summon 3 models off a single scrap. But to do so, you need an 11 or higher, and a soulstone. It is also once per turn, so a black joker can pretty much ruin your day. If Nico black jokers, he can just try again. If Ramos summons 3 spiders, they come in at 2 wds instead of one. I will admit, df6 and armor 1 makes them more durable, but Ramos has no healing unless you bring Combat Mechanic (its 2 stones and bad), or he hires a Silent One (you wont) or the Malifaux Child (needs a 7), and certainly no AoE healing unless he hires a 5 stone automaton and blows it up. As a support master, in order to "match" Nico's positives and healing you need 6 stones across 3 upgrades, and still need to use a 1 action and an 8 for the df. There is nothing Ramos can do to cause immunity to slow, let alone making them fast in the same activation. I'm wondering if support Nico will have legs, considering on paper it is so damn good

This. I have a very real problem with a summoner being able to alpha you, with the models he just summoned. Who incidentally are fast instead of slow, and have if they brought Nico with them.

Since the last time I posted here, I have bought and built a swampy Neverborn Zoraida crew (hope to get in a game with her tomorrow). Still very seriously eyeing the Lynch on the shelf at my LGS. As for things I don't have an interest in, I would be ok trying just about everything in the game, but... Arcanist - My main faction and I will have all of them soon I'm sure, but Mei speaks to me the least. Then again, so did Ironsides but after learning how she plays, I have had a complete reversal of opinion Outcast - None really, I suppose the Viks are bottom of the list, but not out of the running Neverborn - On the fence about Lilith, but not strongly opposed Gremlins - As a faction they are just kinda meh to me. Not really any interest in anything, except maybe Brewmaster (if nothing to play with whiskey gamin, still salty about them not being summonable gamin) Guild - Due to a fierce loyalty to the Union, the only reasons I can see myself playing anything Guild is playing Lucius in Neverborn with some guild models, PoI Levi with fun constructs, or if Hoffman becomes a dual-Arcanist Ressers - Another faction where nothing looks particularly bad, just nothing so interesting I have bought it yet Thunders - As with Gremlins, as a faction, meh. That said, the dual factions with stuff I play (Mei, Misaki, Lynch) as well as Yan Lo and Asami look fun (I just want Jorogumo). Shen has to be bottom of the list there

Charge, clockwork fist, and Somer squealed, which happens before the place on my attack. He squealed away, I shot for free, he tried tp squeal again father away, so I shot again. He squealed behind cover, I used reposition trigger and shot again, he squealed into my engagement so I couldn't shoot. I finally resolved my original place trigger from clock work fist, placed him out of engagement, and shot again, killing him with RJ. Opponent shouldn't have squealed so much, but I don't think he had ever run into a situation where squealing worked against him

Me too, the trick is get them on even footing ASAP. Have Sue one shot their pigapult, VS kill Somer in 1 AP, and Anna kill a taxadermist and some stuffed Piglets, and things start looking much better. The only model I lost was Lazarus, before he even got to shoot anything (sad)

Say a model with 4 wounds is pushed through two of Ramos' strike markers. On the first one the model takes 4 damage, killing it. Does the second marker go away? I've heard it argued both ways. Duncan Bilz had a good way of explaining it, "after the first marker kills it, there is no model to make a second damage flip against, so the second marker doesn't go away". Anything definitive out there to explain what happens?

I've been meaning to run Anna with Ramos, and after that game with VS, absolutely will. I Pay Better goes well on her, as she is likely to be near the rest of your crew, and is reasonably survivable. Survivalist + Marlena Webster means you can charge VS in wherever the hell you want, and not worry too much about the counterattack. I'm really enjoying Schill's new upgrades. Getting 6 attacks in 1 AP (due to poor choices by opponent, but regardless) and killing a full health Somer with a whole second Charge AP left was pretty spectacular

That they would

I played my second game with Schill last night, with VS himself, Anna, Sue, Lazarus, Marlena, and Librarian. Worked very well, but with such a low model count it can definitely be an uphill battle. With what you have, you could drop Sue and Marlena (assuming you do actually have the Librarian), and throw in Trapper/Johan/Big Jake/ etc depending on Schemes and Strats, or throw in Desperate Mercs/Void Wretches for cheap schemers. It was my first game with Anna, but she will definitely be a regular addition. I've had good results with "I Pay Better" in a Schill crew, because almost everything happens to be a merc anyway

I second this, Ironsides is just a blast to play, and is reasonably well equipped for most scenarios. Nowhere near as versatile as Sandeep, but more fun

Stopping healing I suppose would work, as well as several small damage pulses like Misery

Almost guaranteed? Is there anything that gets around it?

Well when you put it like that

When/on who do you bring this upgrade? At 2 stones I can never seem to justify it. I've been thinking about it on Amina, since she is sorta squishy, and df 7 can at least help with that, but that makes her an 11 stone investment. You could also throw it on the Ice Golem if you are bound and determined to make that model worth hiring. Thoughts?

I've never even thought about taking them as a Merc, how do you normally use them/what do they do at 6ss you can't get from an in faction model? The only reason I even noticed they had the merc characteristic, was for I Pay Better...