INXVI

@TeddyBear

One of my good mates usually always uses Anna against me. Mainly when I declare Collodi or Pandora, and sometimes when I run Lilith (usually with Graves and/or Lilitu and situationally a Silurid)

She can be killed, but her stat line is really nice, plus she can stone. Vortex allows for pushing away beaters and in Neverborn we haven't got a tonne of shooting, but she can still be put down by a dedicated Nekima stampede. 

There was a lot of talk about Zipp in another thread, he is a tricky master to beat. He can bury (I haven't played against that style yet, it seems fun) displace your models and help with his own positioning. The first time I faced him, I used Pandora (which was like my 4th game with her) Pandora decimated his hand, then my opponent (who was new to Zipp) figured dropping her was the best option. It worked really well. His zipper zapper has some nice triggers and Zipp is slippery to kill with his triggers. I don't think I've ever killed him, but I feel like Lilith or the Rider stand a good chance at tying him down (with long charge ranges and rooted).

@Angelshard

Thanks mate, that is what I am aiming for my hands with Lynch are usually crazy, even before the cycling, I wish I had that kind of luck when running The Dreamer 😂 I just fancied a change, I main Lilith and will probably play a bit more seriously in tournaments so Lynch is only used for Ours + Killy Pool (I love breakthrough with Tots, it works so well) so crafting a wonky but fun list to try out in casual games seems great, and I've got a lot to try out from this thread. 

Hannah in a Lilith list is definately interesting, if only she could copy Wicked Vines 😍 

These examples may not be the most efficient of her AP, but could definitely work in the right situation.

Nullify, although it is only CA 5, making a model Insignificant is great in GG18, and the idea of dropping Hannah to remove the condition (unless they have condition removal) isn't necessarily the easiest thing to achieve.

Lilitu's lure, Lilitu works with Lilith, and having a 2nd round of lures can be amazing to really screw with your opponents placement, and even help some of your slower models go up the board. 

Bottle Of Painkillers, a 6 of rams for a 1/2/3 heal flip isn't the best, but could be worse. Also, I'm not 100% in this one, as I don't own Hannah, but it might only be a 6 if she targets herself.

Gamble Your Life, while not the most synergetic with Lilith (Serena could give it Black Blood to add a bit at least) this CA is incredible, but is definitely a double edged sword. However, with your card cycling, and a usual advantage (assuming your opponent is of equal to lower DF to the CA) then you could easily drop a lot of damage. The only issue is, the 6' range, so maybe punching face could pay off more, but these are all assumptions after all

Hope this helps, I don't have all the models in the faction, otherwise my advice would be wider.

@Angelshard

Thanks for the reply mate, I've always wanted to try out random synergies with Lynch and you've provided me a good few

I'll definitely be trying The Thorn tactic, and running Scion will be great, because I don't think I've ever ran him in a list. 

8 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

McTavish isn't a neverborn model, so can't lead a neverborn HH crew.

Oh yeah, sorry about that. I forgot how the whole Merc rules worked in HH.

@santaclaws01

I thought the henchman was free in a HH? Then 3 others model of a SS cost of upto 20?

And I forgot about the Executioners trigger, seems like a higher DF is the way to go.

I kind of feel like Saemus is one for me, when my oppnonent declares him, I kind of know what to expect. Maybe it is because I played against him a bit when I started learning, and Pandora died to a Red Joker on turn 2, during the 1st ever game I played her. 

The Hanged & Anna usually crop up in his lists, and recently, he shot Collodi, causing 4 wounds on the first activation of turn 1. He took a bit of a battering the next activation, but was soon carried away.

Nellie is another one, she isn't really bad, but I still have nightmares about the time Mr Graves had 4 or more conditions on his card and literally couldn't do anything 😂

Maybe a swampfiend style crew, Waldgeist are cheap and sturdy, if they haven't activated, hus SH actions will recieve a negative flip, and your tree markers could really mess up charge lanes and shooting alike. Bad Juju (or McTavish if you have him) can bring some nice damage. Then you could fill out what you need, maybe Graves (I can't remember if non-leaders can take upgrades in HH) with Malifaux Provides for healing. 

Or you could run Candy, maybe with her upgrade and just keep putting up the double negative field, the Doppel could be used for iniative cheating, but I guess that isn't the most fun route.

Vasillisa with 3 stitched and an upgrade could be fun 😂 definitely not the mist effective, but if you keep hitting him hard, I doubt his crew will survive too long.

Barbaros is quite the tank, with DF 6, a trigger to push enemies away and Armour 1, he can take a good few blows. Combined with a Rougarou for pounces, maybe The Tooth for lures & Pounces and scheme marker healing if you go for Malifaux Provides and you have a pretty punchy crew. Cyclops could also work here, Ice pillars will help keep your models safe, and there damage spread is also quite nice. 

9 minutes ago, Azkral said:

Another neverborn Card shuffle is use a bloodwretch and serena bowman.

The bloodwretch can hit serena for cards, and she comes back.

I love the sound of that! Its a pretty cheap way to get cards too. Just finished painting her, so I've been throwing her in a tonne of lists.

She scores me Guarded Treasure a lot, and she can heal, so even after the card cycling is done, or falls apart, she has other purposes to complete.

@Ludvig

The main point of this thread was to bring up new things that Lynch could do, I know he is no where near as good at WP shenanigans as Pandora for example, but I want to try experimenting with him for fun, but you've made some good points. I tried his new limited upgrade yesterday and it's a lot of fun, I was drawing masks like crazy (which never happens when I play Dreamer 😢) Maybe there is some unseen potential with spamming cheap models?

@anencephalous

Thanks for all the points mate, I've always wanted to try Lust with Lynch and that tactic seems really good for beefing out his hand and makes Final Debt incredible.

I think the main issue is, as you say, Lynch is known for killing. I've been thinking up of some great Dreamer & Collodi tactics, but never anything new for Lynch, he usually runs as a pretty generic list with a few changes. It is a shame he plays a that way, but at least he does it really well. The one thing I enjoyed in the list I ran yesterday, was Coppelius healing Lynch with eyes (it was a very experimental list).

So I decided to step across to the 10T forum, and came across a couple of threads which talk about Lynch's playstyle. The list building and synergies were much more varied over there. Lynch was my first master and will always be one of my favourites, even if he rarely sees play from me anymore.

This is mainly due to his lists feeling quite dull, I had really good succes in a tournament game the other week, but he did what he always does, kill, kill a lot. My list was as it always is, with Nekima, Graves, Tots etc.

So what I was wondering is, what kind of creative shenanigans have we got for the Gambling Man? 

Maybe WP based effects, such as Sorrows or Insidious Madness could kick in. A horror duel based list, with the Widow Weaver and Coppelius maybe? 

These lists will most likely be for fun, but you never know, we could stumble upon something amazing 😂

Cheers to anyone who comments.

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Kaos said:

I'm expecting a wave of "reincarnated" masters. Masters going trough big changes both in models and rules.

 

  Hide contents

 

Lilith is basically dead, Nico is basically dead, several other masters went trough big changes (mcMourning no longer working for guild, Nekima trying to reinstate her as a master, ecc).

 

I think in the next book every faction will get a new master or an "evolved" master.

 

@Pikciwok

Fair enough, I once gave the Firestarter insignificant, and if there wasn't for a turn 6, I'd have denied him 2 VP. 

Same with a Terror Tot trying to achieve Surround them, I know it's not much, and there's probably more examples, but it's still something. 

I usually run him into a corner for my own surround them. 

I haven't disregarded the Cherub entirely anyway, I was just pointing out how it sizes up against the PM. A lot of people think 2 stones for the card draw and situational marker is great, so its usually worth it.

Your overview is strong though, I'll definitely try the Cherub next time I run Lilith to see how it works out.

I was reading about the Cherub again today, and I can't help but feel like he fits here. Not because he's overcosted or poorly written, but because of the Primordial Magic. 

For a 3ss totem, DF 6 is solid, interactions for 1 less AP is amazing in some instances and a SH 5 with built in slow, it's amazing for such a low cost. Even the option to create hazardous terrain around a target is pretty nice to have. But a scheme marker when needed and an extra card draw a turn, with the chance to pass out insignificant is probably better than the Cherubs slow for example. 

Maybe he is used and works for some people, I'd love to try him out with supply wagon, maybe with the Emissary for a first turn push or something. 

My guess would probably be Lilith orientated. Rooting Zipp is a great shutdown, it doesn't solve all the problems, but it will limit options. Alongside her maneuverability, from flight and tangle shadows, with Beckon Malifaux maybe supressing his SH action, she could probably hide away, whilst continuing to Root models too. 

It's not a counter as such, but more of a way to supress how annoying he can be. 

Another option, could be the Hooded Rider with the Retributors eye, not only is the rider fast, but I believe it can ignore defensive and willpower triggers for a turn? I know he isn't as brutal in the earlier turns, but he could definitely keep up with Zipp and pick off Skeeters who are giving off fast, or other scheme runners in general.

@Masquer

I've been wanting to try out an Illuminated with Warped Reality, that way he can tank hits that the Dreamer would suffer, especially any CA actions. With Armour +1, A regen of usually 2-3 and potential healing/ap abuse from Dreamer if needed, he would have a pretty hefty model to punch face with.

Maybe Lilitu for positioning too, then scheme runners and a couple of beaters or the Emmisary to bulk out towards schemes and strats.

Hey, so I just finished my first game using 'The Dreamer' today. I fancied a change from my usual Lilith / Pandora lists, which are usually pretty repetitive. I loved playing him, even though I found myself in difficult situations. 

I guess, what I'm asking, is how Dreamer constructs his activation? My first turn consisted of 2 summons and casting empty night. He seems very versatile as a master, and I can see myself favoring a support play style. 

But, everything went downhill after this. 

I drew the Red joker, and prepared to summon a Teddy, this would have helped, as although the scheme pool wasn't immediately killy, The Sow came plowing into my models, with the help of Ulix. It didn't help that we had Flank deployment either, but to make matters worse, Tannen Black Jokered on the 'Leave It To Luck' ability, meaning I was left rethinking my activation. 

Onto turn 3, I summoned Teddy, removed his slow and gave him fast, but messed up with positioning, meaning Dreamer was left hidden, but alone. Turn 4, I summoned Chompy, who immediately died from The Sow's 2nd red joker that game. 

I've missed a lot of elements out, such as my scheme runners dying to the Pigapult, Dreamer was unharmed, but balancing his AP to summon Daydreams or scheme runners with supporting or walking is pretty difficult. 

Any knowledge you guys have, on getting the most from the mini guy? For example, how many summons would he do before we start getting a bit too dedicated to his summoning. How do I manage waking? 

Any advice will help, I'd personally just love to find more out and see how he fares up in 2018!

The scheme pool will probably determine how you structure your list a bit more, any ideas on what the scheme pool may be?

I personally lovr Nekima, there's something so satisfying about dropping 4 damage on an enemy without a sweat, but it often means I over extend her. Her primary focus is punching, however she doesn't necessarily need to go head first into the enemies face. She could pick off annoying models, or fast movers you might struggle with otherwise. With Pandora, you can dictate activation orders, therefore if Nekima finds herself regretting the last charge, she may live to fight on. She's also a great distraction, but at a hefty cost. 

I guess the Emmisary fills a different role, he can copy front of the card abilities with his Conflux, meaning Candy & The Emm can got crazy causing duels. His damage spread isn't bad, but can still kill, he's durable too, so you can sorry less about the beater stood in front if him, if it comes to that. Summoning changelings is always nice, but in some scheme pools you may wish to keep them safe, he also requires a mask, meaning less Sorrows. Oh what I wouldn't give to let Pandora have instinctual 😂

If you can give us an idea on the schemes and strategy that would help, but the main thing is, enjoy yourself, I had my first tournament a week ago and it was a great experience!

@-Loki-

I second the alt Lynch, that Broken Promises artwork was stunning! Me and my 10T mate vowed to buy it at any cost 😂 It has a lot of potential.

I've always wanted to try the BBS and Illuminated combo. It kind of has a purpose, Black Blood is a really great ability to possess, I run Black Blood models enough to know the 1 damage adds up. But the 7ss does feel wasted, sure a BB Illuminated is nice, but it doesn't really benefit from the Pustule triggers as much. It already heals at least 1 wound a turn, if not more, so the crows isn't really necessary. The + to ML is crazy, but Brilliance kind of achieves the same thing. + to DF duels is great, but Illuminated are tanks as it is. 

It's a great idea and I guess play testing is always an option, but it doesn't seem really efficient for the 7ss. Could be fun with Liliths new upgrade to heal a BB model within 6' 2 wounds, creating an almost unkillable crack addict 😂

@Noodles

Hey mate, I'm in a similar situation to you, as I've played about 10 games with Pandora, but I can let you know what I've learnt so far. 

Now both models have a lure, high CA value so they are pretty reliable, this is something Kade's lacks, but it serves for the purpose of placement and pounce in his case :). Something I think people forget about the Beckoner, is the the 4' push, in any direction. Not only is it built in, but this allows the Beckoner to push away from a risky situation, she is frail after all, whilst also opening up a charge lane for one of your models, which Lilitu may have blocked. Brilliance is nice to have, although it will provide no synergy, it does mean that the model would be on negative flips when targeting her, so strats such as 'Public Execution' are a little less frightening for her. 

Onto Lilitu, she has 4' engagement range, which is just amazing in my experience. She can tie up multiple models, for Hold Up Their Forces, interact from a distance in Ply, and protect your markers in other schemes or the strat to name just a few. Her whip can give paralyzed, which has potential if you manage to summon the Poltergeist, and putting yourself on + flips helps her achieve what needs to be done. Plus regen +1, because who doesn't love healing? 

I personally prefer Lilitu, but a Beckoner still has potential, especially after that stone drop. 

Hope this helps, I might have missed something, but hopefully the pros will help enlighten you further

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Pikciwok said:

Ok, first of all - Pandora's upgrades. Because Eliminate The Leadership is in the pool I would suggest investing in some defensive upgrades: Aether Connection is IMHO a must, as well as full cache. Pick the Box Opens, if you  like it. Alternatively, you can take the Voices instead to paralyze beaters (and thwart opponent's plan to score the Strategy) - just remember that you should kill at least one model per turn with Dora. I don't recommend Woe is Me for this Strategy. I advise to take Rile them up as your third upgrade - that way you can reliably kill models that have damage reduction and/or pathetic melee attack, i.e. Ramos (Eliminate the Leadership!), Brutal Effigy. That would be 8 or 9 points spent on Dora only.

Speaking of Effigies - get one. It's cheap and durable, plus its (0) will save your bacon when models like 'Debt to the Guild'ed Francisco decides to Flurry you.

I would also take Iggy with Malifaux Provides - he can protect Dora (and other woes - if you take them) with his Martyr ability, then heal by eating one of Hold up their forces.

Take a model with Lure - either Lilitu or Baby Kade (or both ) to pull Dora (or other models) away from their scheme markers in order to avoid the Set Up. Kade with Depression can also kill things without too much armor, and with Lilitu you can score your own Set Up - she's got 4"  so she can also Hold Up their forces. Both models are Woes, too, so both Iggy and Pandora can protect them with Martyr. Side note - lure has a really long range so it's trivial to score first point of Vendetta with it.

Consider taking Mr Graves with 1k faces. If you're gonna start in the Corner deployment - just take him. He can kill stuff, he can survive a few blows, and he can gently show Pandora the door. 

Consider taking Doppelganger if you think you need a force multiplier.

If you want to do the Set Up - The Tooth should be your choice.

Take Thorn instead if you want solid, self-suficient model that would draw you some cards. Her good range can also help you Hold up their forces.

If the terrain favors gunlines - take Freikorps Trapper and a pack of Changelings, then go Vendetta. Changeling is the very best model in the game to score points from Vendetta.

I don't think Madnesses or Weaver fit well in this scenario, so don't worry about the lack of models. Emissary can remove Shed Blood Condition form enemy models, but he's far from necessary IMHO (third Martyr model would help though). Don't take Sorrows - they're good models, but they're squishy, too, and you will use Martyr mostly to protect Dora. That's just not the best scenario for them.

I love Poltergeist, I really do, it's a great totem, but - like most of suggested models here - it's not cheap. You'll probably run low on SS points so just be that lazy, boring guy and take Primordial Magic as a card-cycling, cheap activation. You can even use it to score Set Up.

Just remember to write a little report after the tournament, I'm curious now

Thanks so much for such an in depth response mate, I'll definitely take it all into account. This is my first tournament, so it'll be pretty tense but I'm looking forward to it

I think I'll probably run Voices Pandora, in the test game, my opponent had 6 models, so paralyzing 1/2 of his crew was amazing (while it lasted at least)

My base list usually consists of Graves, Doppel, I love them so much. Doppel has a habit of loving and hating me (I once blacked 3 times in one game when using her 😂) 

Thanks again though mate, let's see if I can pull it off 😉

Thought I'd throw in the result below.

So, I went with Voices Pandora, taking Eliminate Leadership with Vendetta. Lilitu scored 2 on Vendetta, he looked so confused when I lured The Tooth, because of her positioning meaning she wouldn't move far. I missed out on the 3rd point as he used some positioning shenanigans which resulted in her dying when 3 VP felt so close 😂

I managed to kill Lucius, my opponent plays him really well, but my crew had been depleted by a combination of a pouncing Rougarou, and Mr Graves. My hand was abscent of crows to the point it was painful 😂 but we had a good laugh about it, especially since he knows Pandora so well, it's his main master I believe. 

The game ended 8-6, with some close card flips leading to VP being lost and gained. 

The other 2 games went great, I won them both, putting me 4th. I got an Alt Titania from the mystery box, and I love the model so much! It's thrown me off balance now though, as I was going to buy and focus on learning the Dreamer next month, but I can't turn down the chance of fielding that model and card 😮

Hey guys, so I'm looking for some advice, I'm entering a Tournament tomorrow and I'm probably going to run Pandora for the first game. My lists are pretty solid for the other 2 games, but I've been struggling to make a list for the first game.

The strategy is Public Execution, with the schemes of Set Up (3), Hold Up Their Forces (4), Inescapable Trap (6), Vendetta (13) & Eliminate The Leadership (Always)

Initially, the schemes have a balance of killing, with keeping the enemy alive, both lists I've trialed over the past week have been successful in one area but not another. It almost feels like focussing on killing is the most potent choice.

On that note, could anyone help me build a list that could fare up well with this scheme pool? I don't own the Widoe Weaver, Insidious Madness or Emissary, but I own a lot of the other elements a Pandora crew needs.

Thanks

Thanks everyone for pitching ideas, all of them seem to have a lot of potential.

@Angelshard That idea is amazing, I might combine it with the whole Barbaros tactic, so not only is it a pain to interact, but you pose a chance of losing the condition too

Hey, so there's been a lot of negativity around certain factions and how they weigh up in certain scheme pools. So, rather than focussing on the disadvantages, I thought I'd make a thread highlighting tactics and benefits we learnt from the new schemes and strats as time passes. 

I had a game today, testing out a list for a tournament I'm participating in next weekend. The strategy was Ply For Information, so I ran Lilith, Graves, Doppel, Tannen, Lilitu & Barbaros, with a couple of other models. I feel that Barbaros is really strong here, I cheated iniative with the Doppel, before putting up Barbaros' challenge aura and gaining intel from a model around him. This meant the enemy model couldn't interact with Barbaros, and to gain intel, they usually had to pass the TN 14 WP Duel, which became a way of depleting the opponents hand. When combined with Rooting, Tannens Cooler (he was killed first after my opponent realised how frustrating Chatty & Cooler were) Lilitu's 4' whip and other elements, it was interesting to see how it played out. 

I haven't really tried any other tactics for the new year, but how is everyone else sizing up these new schemes and strats? If you have any good concepts, tactics or just advice for everyone, feel free to share. 

Hope this thread helps