Angelshard

Does anyone know if we will get a guild starter box with these models. I'd hate to have to buy the other side starter box to get them.

I think a lot of the negativity around guild stems from GG0 and gg1. GG2, plus an errata that nerfed a lot of other factions without really harming us (yes, yes I know, Phiona) made life as a guild player a lot easier. As I see it the biggest problem guild has is a lack of inbuilt suits. We have a lot of actions that rely on having the right card in hand in order to get the full effect of the action. The other problem is a lack of a good cheap schemer, although false witness is quite solid. As for movement, I disagree that guild is behind here. Frontier is insanely mobile, family and augmented will often surprise people with their mobility and models like rider, grimwell and Lone marshal are really good at getting where they want to be. At least that is how I see it.

For me Basse is someone I would take into every strat and most pools. There are schemes he struggles with, but it's rare I see a pool where his scheme choices would be telegraphed. I would also take him against every faction, if I didn't know the meta and what people tend to play. There's most certainly masters that are a horrible match up for him, but they aren't the typical top pick of the faction. With the possible exception of dreamer, where I still don't have a feel of how much people play him after the new errata. So when I don't choose him it's because the strat, pool and faction choice indicates a master he wouldn't like to see. Even then I feel he can take a lot of tech picks, compared to other guild masters, to give him a better chance. Disclaimer: I don't play nellie and my Dashel crew is still mostly unpainted and haven't seen the table since GG0. I also haven't played Basse before GG2.

Thanks for the detailed writeup. Out of curiosity, what was your Basse list?

I've never understood the dislike of monster hunters. For 6 stones they're a solid, fast schemer. They can even deal decent damage if you invest a bit in it. I would definitely put family reserves as a green. Also because I'm pretty sure pistoleros are going to get an errata at some point.

@Filox I'm going to have try a witness. The lawyer just brings a lot to the table outside of his obey, which is honestly often too costly outside of lucius. @Maniacal_cackle I'm not saying they are great at either. But death beds is a solid 1 vp scheme for them, which is something I just accept sometimes. Research mission is probably one of the worst schemes for frontier, but if you're willing to sacrifice a trap and spend your worms turn two on it, then it's quite doable. Place a trap on the enemy table side, walk up and hit it once for moderate so it dies (or shoot it with something else), then turn two you place a scheme marker and a lasting sand marker and it's a point. The second point should be quite easy. Three different models near three different markers. Especially if it's leylines or turf war. It might be that this is too much theory craft. But I'm definitely going to try it.

@Adran very true, and he might be worth it in other factions. But for guild he just doesn't cut it. I can't help but look at GG2 and think that frontier has no dead schemes or strats. Sure, there are some that are harder for them than others. But even research mission doesn't seem that bad.

My main problem with him is that he has some good abilities and actions. Problem is, as @Maniacal_cackle says, he is a long ranged, fairly squishy model, that has close support abilities. Natural musk and forage are great, on a model that wants to get up close. He also loses to the Pathfinder big time. Heck I'm not even sure if I'd take him over a frontiersman.

@Trample I can't see any use for him in guild. In explorers there's some beasts that might make him worth it, if you bring them OOK. I just think you'll have a hard time justifying him over a Pathfinder.

@Filox do you really find that false witness are worth the 6 stones OOK? I've been looking at them myself, but had a hard time justifying them, just to draw cards. Especially when the lawyer costs one stone more and has so much utility plus a bit of card cycling and card draw. What do you take instead of the worm? The only other beaters I can see myself bringing are emissary, peacekeeper or rider and only rider is close to as mobile as the worm. (I don't have phiona, as I've never liked the journalists theme).

@4thstringer I can see that, I guess I just keep thinking that for one more stone I can get a Pathfinder or the steward. I think my problem with them are that they do a lot, but they don't do anything really well. Deputy is nice, but I tend to spread my crew out, when playing frontier. The heal is fine, but it requires a low tome and is only range 1. The gun is decent, but I get better shooting for a few stones more. I just always end up switching them for a more expensive model. So you usually run more than one? Maybe they work better in pairs.

Frontier is going to be my main focus in GG2, and I think they're going to be really strong in this pool. One thing I really like is that they seem to prefer staying mostly in keyword (I do have an extra layer that's going to be converted so he fits the theme, I've yet to find a crew where he isn't good). I haven't had a lot of experience with them yet, so I'm wondering what neat plays people have found. The ones I've got are: Take prisoner on a rough rider and use him to send reichardt into combat. Placing traps next to strat markers, I've only used this in symbols, but there it worked great and I'm thinking it should work in everything but leylines now. Austringers are great for vendetta. It's relatively easy to hit a target from safety, with the raptor, and then keep him alive. I also have a question. Does anyone have a good use for frontiersmen?

Welcome to the guild! If you haven't done it download the malifaux crew builder app. It's free and it's a great tool. Personally I would recommend using what you have right now for the first three or four games at least. The first step is learning the rules well enough to understand what models can do and realise that, unlike most other miniatures games, focusing on killing every enemy will likely lose you the game. Strats and schemes is the important thing. Then, once you're pretty confident with your understanding of the core rules and what your models can and cannot do, you can start looking at other models in the faction to shore up your weaknesses and maybe a second master. Or you could do like me and buy everything, because you're a plastic addict. Hope this helps

@santaclaws01 you're right. I guess it just threw me off that the last statement is just a catch-all that will never trump any contradictory rules, but is there to prevent discussion.

@santaclaws01 4. If the new and original models belong to the same Crew, the new model becomes the target of any effects that targeted or chose the original model, such as Schemes, Leader designation, or lasting game effects. The new model is always considered a legal target for those effects. Then what is the purpose of the last paragraph?

I'd say point 4 under replace makes it pretty clear that an insignificant model is still legal and counts for the purpose of the specific scheme where it was named.

@Filox I find most of the family models are quite solid and efficient. Perdita and Francisco are great models. Nino, papa, abuela and monster hunters are solid pics, if you have a plan for them. The nephilim is fine after it got card draw, still nothing to write home about, but no longer something you try to get rid of. Santiago is in a funny spot. He tries to be a damaging support piece that doesn't really do any of those roles well. Pistoleros I don't know what to do with, I just can get them to work. But thats still most of the keyword being solid models, at least in my opinion.

@Filox I guess I just haven't played against that many distracted masters, I do usually bring steward or Santiago anyway, so I don't know if it's that much of an issue.

@Maniacal_cackle true, hadn't thought about henchman leaders, or giving models from different keywords the same ability. But it makes sense.

Ond thing I'd really like to see is master requirement on other models. For example frontiersman could gain an ability called: Trailblazer: if Basse is this crews leader, this model can remove one hazardous terrain marker, in base contact, at the end of a move action. Giving models a master dependent upgrade could make them useful without letting other keywords benefit from it.

I honestly think errata and GG2 has helped family more than hurt them. The focus stack hurts a bit, but not as much as other crews, since you can still top it up out of activation and all their pushes have become more versatile. Also there's less focus on the models trying to kill you,so models like monster hunters and Santiago could stay around longer. I can see target practice being used more. I know people generally try to put down their scheme markers late, but shooting the marker away from an out flanking model sounds like a ton of fun.

I really like bait and switch. The second point is going to be so interesting

True, but that is a good bit rarer than unimpeded, blow it to hell or the universal remove terrain action.

@Maniacal_cackle My main beef with them is the severe trait. Against Titania I can tech in unimpeded and get through. Sure there might not be the same amount, but Sonia can place them a lot better that fae, after deployment, and two markers in a choke point would take a rider from mv 7 to mv3.5. He wouldn't even get through the markers. I might be over reacting and it isn't that bad, but in GG2, where movement seems to be key I can see these being incredibly strong.

Perhaps they should consider adding destructible to pyre markers