Tris

I'm with from a logical point of view, but I think game wise Titans would be pretty dead pretty fast otherwise 😕 It's a hard one to balance...

But what I really don't like about it's intended role as titan hunter - it's not mobile enough to find a good firing spot and doesn't ignore LoS, so it can't shoot over enemy fireteams on the Titan at all. So it seems like it's just not good at fulfilling it's only role.

Focused effort to mitigate cover? So we're still talking AV 3 overall, which won't hit anything if you're not in possession of a vastly superior hand. I'm not impressed, and even more underwhelmed if I start comparing it to the other factions 3 scrip options.

Edmonton and Thrace both only command Squads - which the Artillery isn`t. So, what`s the Artillerey doing against these Titans? Str 6 looks super solid against them, agreed. But AV3, not ignoring cover and LoS is super bad. - you don`t ignore cover so you`re basically always AV1 -> add the single inspired token you can use for each attack and you`re back to 3, wow. Try hitting the models of the faction with vastly superior hand. - you don`t ignore LoS -> they can hide their Titans behind Infantry Fireteams or terrain. - and once that Steel Legion Cutter is in your grills, you can`t even shoot at them (maybe without cover for the first time) because you are simply not allowed to shoot under a certain range band. Sure, you get 3 Artillery Teams for the price of one Grenadier Squad with Sharpshooters but if you have the Hand cards to invest even their area damage has a higher chance of wounding a Titan than the Artillery has of actually hitting it. Idk, maybe spamming and hoping for them to fail or make a movement mistake is the way to do it, but I don`t see it, unfortunately.

Of course, but I'm not saying that you have to go full ham on the Tactic tokens/cards, just that there's room for more without changing a given build too much - there's of course always the "if I do this he can do this" factor, but Thtace plus 1 asset and the medal is 5 scrip and gives me an additional attack/ reinforcement Token per turn while the medal doesn't take up an uber important slot on Unathi, and let's him inspire a Squad in addition to command it - and regarding what I've seen so far aby always has some Engineers floating around somewhere

Depends on the unit - would like them to be removed from a Rhino for example 😛 But yeah, it would say on your allegiance card if you would have to remove them

@spooky_squirrel To optimize the mentioned build, play at least one medal of honour and thrace, gives you +3 tactic tokens when you glory her with 2 cards, which you'll get back using engineers, hand held recording device and unathis "prototype command" (twice, so 2 cards and 2 shots) on a unit of electrocutioners who are equipped with a flare gun and thus should be able to take a pot shot at whatever. Just so that the math for tokens/cards is more in your favour

Just so that we have all the relevant wordings here: Thraces "Fire at Will": Target Squad with at leastone Fireteam in range takes a Action. -> we came to the consensus in various other threads that we´re talking about a singular action here, because after one fireteam in the squad shoots, the fireteam has taken !an! action. KEs "Rapid Manouvering": King`s Empire Squads in this company that receive the Rush Order may discard a card to take a Action instead of a action. So, both effects refer to an Action taken by a Squad, why do we see them differently? Again, genuine question as I would like it to be that way, just need to justify my "powerplay"^^

But isn't that the same problematic wording we've encountered on Thrace? Her action says a friendly squad may take -a- projectile action, and we came to the consensus that it's a single action in that case. What's the difference here? I would happily play it that way myself as KE is my main atm, just not sure how to do it and I think a FAQ entry is warranted.

Thabks for starting the thread, wanted to do it myself but haven't gotten the time^^ Imo the artillery team is the worst model in the game atm and it seems the reason could've been fear of ranged attacks in playtest, which is totally understandable. But we have a str 6 gun (scary value) on an AV3 platform which doesn't ignore cover or LoS (it's an artillery piece....) so as you said it'll shoot at AV 1 or maybe 3 at best. As to hunting titans - it can't even target them if another unit stands in front of them as it does still require LoS... The heavy shelling seems nice but I don't know why that's locked onto the glory side. I don't know how aby has flare guns and the mortars on the titan asset which both grant a glimpse at what the Artillery could've been - heck, I KE would've to discard a card to let it ignore LoS and/or cover it would be a big price to pay for that faction You could buy like 2 of them and block lure lanes in a game against the hordes as theartillery itself can't be moved by the enemy company but I dare say that the 6 scrip would be better invested in something else.

But if you´re defender the advance deployment suddenly becomes very hide and seek^^ I like them for the reason that yes, the special deployment can have a huge impact on the game, but it`s all on a very squishy unit, I think it balances out quite nicely I find it hard to justify them as defender though, especially since the attacker get`s his coordinated strike now in the first round of a game - they are more likely than not just dead after the first enemy activations. this can work to your advantage as well if you`re using them as bait, but I´m not sure I would take them solely for that purpose anymore. I wouldn`t see that as a problem, instead it`s what these units are supposed to do and about one of the only things Infiltrators are good at imo.

It`s just that the cults efforts to get it up there and inspired is something that fits perfectly in their game plan anyways, while the opponent has to get out of his way to try(!) and stop that. Only thing it absolutely needs are shaken tokens, portals are there anyways and not exclusively usable by the Rhino, so it`s important to get them in a good position regardless of if the Rhino lives or not. And of course everybody "can" kill it with more luck than Gladstone Gander but is it consistent? - No.

Also you need another high ram to hit in the first place, as you`re only 1 up on the Rhinos def if I remember correctly? And then there´s the afformentioned toughness upgrade which can be used again and again if you`re in a good spot by going focused effort reinforce on the Rhino. There are certainly ways around it but we are talking about using special assets, commanders and whole units and even our Titan to get a 3pt model down while the rest of the Cult does whatever they want. I´m still not confident enough in my ability to play this game as it`s pretty new, but I`m sure that some units and combos seem concerning to say the least, and the sooner we get the discussion going, the sooner we know for sure if somethings broken or weak, the sooner we get a game we all enjoy playing and can start to grow our communities

@Adran I don`t want to get you out of the discussion, just to be clear, I´m genuinely asking if I missed something As to how to deal with those Rhinos . I don`t know, their explosion is maybe the best AoE in the game as there`s no way for the opponent to block that, compare that to the artillery strike stratagem you mentioned earlier - the yget the opportunity to pass a sp 12 test and nothing happens (which would be a 4 for a Rhino btw....) Their only weak point seems to be their WP, but I´m not aware of any way to do damage off attacking that. As I said earlier, ToS is all about ressource management, even more so than Malifaux I think, and in that game the Rhino just takes way to much to whittle down while doing so mch damage itself - in wd as well as in VP. With abilities like that, it`s stats are way to good imo, give it def 3 or let us resist against it`s explosions, would be a lot fairer.

A lot of piercing? May I ask again, where? Grenadiers with the right suit, maybe the big gun on the kings hand and.....? Couldn't agree more with @razhem , it's a discussion about relations and point efficency, and the Rhino is right up there at a point where it's just not efficient anymore to deal with it. There are other units there too, but that's a discussion for another day.

Flare Guns, because having the longest shooting range on the table without needing LoS or care for cover seems like the best option - let them close the distance while bombarding everything with av 4 (at least average in comparison to other attacks as you ignore cover) and abys stupidly powerful hand doing the rest

Which models do we have in KE with a base str of 5? Grenadiers with av3? The Artillery, av3? Anything else?

You only need the tome if your base strength is below 5, because the Rhino ignores the flipped card if it's not a tome, not the whole attack. I agree that most of the 3pt units seem quite good for their price though, Eels and Rhinos at the front for being stupidly hard to kill on a good-hitter model and the Marauders for being able to do whatever they want on a rush order, plus being a solid model all around. Exception here is the Empires Artillery Team which seems like it has no use at all, although I'll have to test that more^^

Nope - inspired tokens negate shaken tokens. Pinned negates Reinforcement

Because it says "if you've only activated one unit since your opponents last activation...." but your opponent did not activate a unit at all. Also I might got carried away up there but I think the attacker being able to activate two units in succession to bring them in scoring position / kill an enemy unit is a big advantage for alpha strike strategies. People are saying you might have to deploy further back but then you are giving them full control over the table. I liked that the attacker had first turn but could only activate one unit on game start, it looked like a clever balancing factor to going first which I saw and still see as an advantage in like 99% of all games I've ever played.

Don`t like the ruling at all that you can do a coordinated strike on the first activation of the game - that took a lot of forced decisions away frm the attacker, going first just got a lot better and lost every disadvantage.... Hope we don`t drift into the territory where the player who`s going first has just a higher chance of winning. Also it seems to directly contradict the Rules as written in the GRB, but it`s an Errata so....

No, that's maybe the most abstract rule of ToS - Titans ignore non-Titans for LoS, but the "Nons" don't ignore LoS when they target the Titan.

That's probably because hazardous damage isn't caused by a unit?

They are super fast, hard hitting (str 4 when they rush) and you can cheat for them as much as you like as they are drawing you a card back every time you cheat for them - attack, AP, defensive. I quite like them as an element of counter charge, if that's not needed they are fast enough to do the marker missions. Just wish they could attach an adjunct, hope they'll get one soon ^^

Haha, thank you - while waiting on some answers here i actually played some games and found stuff to deal with them^^ (sems they quite dislike the Kings Hand showing them how a Union Jack looks like) But thanks for Plan B here xD