The Zinc Lich

Out of the two of them, he is definitely the less exciting, but I'm still pleased. He really is the best delivery system for Disrupt Magic and Dampening Field, which, while they are pretty situational, are still tools that Guild has had trouble utilizing thus far. I really think we're going to find that, while he isn't stellar, all of his tools work a little bit better together than they look on the card. After playing a pile of game against Yamaziko, I can safely say that we are seriously undervaluing Nimble. Being able to position around terrain and blocking models before lining up a charge is super useful, it makes his Lobotomize a more genuine threat, and it gives Guild something with legitimately high movement range. Lobotomize, as well, is really useful because it means that all his damage comes out in one duel, making it much more useful for Guild's notoriously card-intensive masters. I see what Justin was talking about with him and McMourning, though. On uppers, the good doctor covers 14 inches and drops a scheme marker, or 21 if he's just ambling. Considering that his stats are fairly decent, he seems like a great dude to send out hunting flanking models.

So, using my powers of miniature game augury, I can make some pretty educated guesses about what the models in the box are going to do. -The two minions are going to pretty much have blank card backs. No triggers, no (0) actions. Since there is no accuracy modifiers, neither will be Hard to Wound, and since we won't learn about simple tests till game 5, they wont be terrifying. That leaves Armor, Regeneration, and possibly Hard to Kill as defenses; that being said, Wyrd might do something new we haven't seen before. For 5 stones a piece with such a bare cards, they will probably have reasonably good stats. -The Enforcers are introduced last, interestingly enough. Combined with that, they are fairly expensive for models that (in Nurse Heartsbane's case, at least) don't look like they bring overwhelming physical abilities to the table. My guess is that they are going to provide some kind of buffs to the Orderlies and Bloodwretches to expand their capabilities a little. I can't otherwise imagine stats high enough to counterbalance the simplicity of the models. Since we learn about TN numbers in their game, they will be the first models that are eligible for CA actions and Horror duels, which I think fits either or both of the Enforcers. Both will have Defensive Triggers (or, less likely, give defensive triggers to their minions). We also learn about Conditions, so they may have any combination of Slow, Paralyze, Poison, or Burning abilities on their cards. -The Henchmen are probably going to be pretty much solo beaters, which is interesting. We know that they will have triggers on their attacks, (0) actions, and some access to accuracy flips, both positive and negative. One or both of them will have access to a pulse effect. There is no mention of Aura effects at all, but I assume something in the box will have one, most likely the Enforcers. Since they are introduced in a mission that has no TNs, Grimwell probably doesn't have a Ca attack, meaning he is all melee, all the time. Since Angel Eyes has a gun, he probably has an identical threat range; no one wants to spend their first game getting kited around by the only person with a ranged weapon. Considering Rifles in this game have a range of 12-14 inches, that is a pretty respectable distance to cover on the charge, especially since I doubt he has a melee range greater than 1. Their upgrades could be anything, really, but people should temper their enthusiasm. They are most definitely faction-locked and, if Wyrd wants the two of them to be feasible mercenaries, they won't be big game changers. I can't wait to crack this thing open!

A+ good. That was the most eloquently said sentiment that I have read in a very long time. I couldn't even imagine trying to express something like that in anything but my native language too. Well done.

On the topic of Obeying people into killing the Proxy, the only Obey effect I can think of that we have access to is Abuela Ortega's. Perdita could get it to work, but I think that it is a testament to how good the Enslaved Nephilim is that I think I would still take it over the Proxy. As far as Lucius in general, I think that people are really discounting the cool stuff he brings to the Guild, namely the Mimics. You had better believe that I am going to be running Ryle and as many Changelings as I can fit in the list as soon as they come out. 4 point models with guns that come with natural plus flips or fists that deal 3/5/7 damage are pretty sweet, and Lucius can move them without activating them to preserve their Manipulative. Also, the Doppelganger. I would take it for Ill Omens on its own; combined with an Expert Sleuth or two, you *will* get initiative when you really need it. Then you have Mimic. There was a thread a while ago that talked about Guild Doppelganger tricks, but the two best ones that I remember are taking Sidir's Empty the Magazine action for mass slowing, or a 4+ bubble of up to 6 damage if Sidir gets the Cull the Weak trigger, and taking Sam's Flaming Bullets aura on a model that is more likely to get use out of it. I haven't gotten to play Lucius with real life models, but when I can, I am going to be running him with Sam and the Stalkers. Of all the cards the Lucius uses, low tomes are not very high on his list, and they can provide relief from random failures of his Commanding Presence aura thanks to the Witchling's Dispel Magic, and you don't get much better bang for your buck in melee than a Witchling. And you can blow them up with Devil's Deal. And you can make sure that Sam is placed for optimal Rapid Fire with Lackeys. Candy, Beckoners, Mr. Graves, and Mr. Tannen are all good models with tools that the Guild doesn't otherwise have access to. Casting actions, activation control, pushes, pulls, Chatty, Cooler... there's a lot there to like that can really surprise opponents that are expecting a straight forward Guild fight.

For funsies, my last game in the wave 3 beta was a Misaki game packing two Jorogumo in it for heavy hitting, and it did *very* well. The Jorogumo are definitely discount beaters, but thanks to Eat Your Fill, they are nightmares if they can repeatedly isolate and eat enemies. I had a dedicated Torakage specifically to throw a smoke wall up between them and any guns the enemy had, and now they can do it themselves. Not to mention that six inch placement with Shadow Stride is *huge*. As a fun thought exercise, think about your favorite crew on the board versus a Misaki crew with a Jorogumo that has just jumped off the table in the first few activations. Now think about the places that it could pop up at the end of turn where it could be relevant and you couldn't reasonably kill it. Can you cover all of those places and still move towards VPs? Because if you leave even one, the TT player is going to be able to put the Jorogumo there.

My recommendation to you is Zoraida. If you want to control the story as it unfolds, there is no master better at doing so than she is. She can make sure that chance encounters happen (or don't, as needs be), and she can make sure you have the right cards when those encounters happen so you come out on top. Her voodoo doll, while it can certainly be used to kill things, is usually better used to remove the opponent's best piece from the fight through slow, paralyze and Bewitch. Zoraida is a master who, while in control of monsters, can win games without murdering the people on the other side of the table. I suppose that she is not Geralt or Shepard, but she can pull the strings that mean those heroic types get what they deserve, one way or another.

Let's not forget Gluttony! Now we have at least three models with African heritage of some variety or another. I think that the biggest hurdle a melee-focused master needs to cross is the fact that it is really hard to make a model whose main purpose is scrumming it up interesting enough to lead a crew. That's the whole problem Guild players have been chewing on for a while with Lady Justice: yes, she is big and mean, but how frequently does charging something really change the pace of the game? The Viktorias and Misaki are both "assassin" style masters, as opposed to "fighter" types; their effectiveness is based more on getting places the enemy doesn't want them to be than just throwing themselves at stuff until there is nothing left standing. While there are very few fighter-y masters, there are *tons* of fighter Henchmen, which I think is a better fit for the fighter role in the game, anyway. I'm on board for more Malifaux of any shape or size, but I'm not sure how excited I'd be for a new Master whose influence on the game is mostly centered on the few inches in arms reach.

I don't think that it is fair to say that Gremlin stuff is easy to kill. Typically, they don't have very high defensive stats or wounds, but they are the faction with the most available, abusable healing sources in the game. Everyone knows about the Slop Hauler, but there is also Quality Mash Liquor and Dirty Cheater for upgrades, and the Lucky Effigy, as well. Pigs have a lot of self-healing going on if you can get the triggers for it (Somer has so much good stuff going on, it feels like such a waste when people just use him for a summoner). Ulix and Brewmaster both have good healing abilities on their base cards, as well. It might not be hard to remove a particular Gremlin, but it is really an all or nothing proposition. If you don't *really* kill it, you might as well not even try. (as an aside, there's a thread on the Guild boards about how the Gremlins are better than the Guild at everything forever. Grass is always greener, I guess)

If you think Sonnia is conservatively dressed, you obviously have never worn heels. There's a reason she's clicking around at Wk 4

[mod hat] Cleaned up some meandering posts. If you want to discuss the comparative value of other faction's master's ranged attacks, there's plenty there for another thread. [/mod hat]

Over here in Manitoba, everything is drawn along strict Guild and Resserectionist lines, including myself. I have a friend in Alberta who reports that Arcanists dominate the field over there, though. I think it is pretty interesting that the local meta changes so dramatically from place to place, to be honest.

You forgot Perdita, Karina, the Student of Conflict, and Mah Tucket. Ophelia and Trixiebelle kind of a push because they are parodies of other sexy models, and you have a bunch of undead and monster women in Neverborn and Resserectionists. If you are really going to have this fight, you then need to go through and point out that those models are balanced against Lady Justice, Myranda, Collette, Kaeris, Cassandra, Kirai, Lillith, Pandora, both Viktorias, and the Hollow Waifs for inexplicably under dressed leader models. Only about 70% of the iconic, named, living human females are dressed and posed for violent encounter, which, while a lot better than other gaming companies (I'm looking at you, Corvus Belli), definitely has room for improvement. Your argument that "there are plenty of non-sexualized women in Malifaux" only really works when you are counting those named models though. I heard the number quoted somewhere that the total number of female models in the game, when you count *all* the models, hovers somewhere around 1/5. On top of that, what are the places where we are getting most of those female minions? Sexy Nurses, sexy Oiran, sexy Ronin, sexy Performers, sexy zombies in several colours, sexy Beckoners, sexy Doppelgangers... Nurse Heartsbane is a great model, but the fact remains that the two player starter is still 1/4 women, as is the Crossroads Seven. I have a hard time arguing with women who feel under represented in the hobby because they are right, they are under represented. Just because Wyrd is doing a better job than everyone else doesn't mean the situation can't get better. At least they have a good balance of ethnic models kicking around Malifaux. Do you know how many years Markus Brisbane was the only canonically non-white person in the entirety of the Iron Kingdoms?

Well, if you like playing Space Marines and Dwarves, that means you like having an army that people bounce off of. When it comes to soaking damage, the premier faction is Arcanists, and there is no one better at it than Ramos. Not only does he bring along decent healing for constructs with Bleeding Edge Tech and Field Mechanic, but he also has Arcing Screen to buff up the survivability of his phalanx of metal monsters. You play with a lot of drop pods instead of taking dedicated transports, and, while you can take Soulstone Miners for the same sort of deep-strike feel, Ramos covers his rather slow approach by summoning batches of Spiders. You play Red Goblins, I'm sure you know the value of having piles and piles of small-but-significant disposable models. If something needs to get engaged, he can engage it before he puts himself and his core crew in striking distance. It also means that you can collect VPs without having to run and do it yourself, so you can build the perfect striking surface for your crew to smash into the enemy. You also enjoy mass amounts of Great Weapons, and, when it comes to big things to hit people with, Ramos has some really good options; if you don't have a story about Howard Langston cutting your face off, you haven't been playing against enough Arcanists.

I'm really, really excited for this set. I'm hoping that the Orderlies are the cheap, tough tarpit minions the Guild faction has been grousing about not having for a while now, seeing as Angel Eyes and the Scion are both going to be bringing some healthy looking guns to the Neverborn. I'm also hoping that Mad Doctor 2.0 plays well with McMourning. At first I was a little bit cheesed that we were getting another grinning mad scientist in Guild, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I shouldn't be complaining about being able to double down on the evil fascist super science. I'm in love with Angel Eyes, as well. She has a real Mad Max feel to her that I dig, although I agree that it is a little bit weird to be wearing a full jacket with nothing underneath. Ah, well, I've been green stuff-ing shirts onto inexplicably bare midriffs for a while now, I suppose that I have the practice. I am happy to see Nurse Heartsbane and the Scion switching the traditional eye-candy roles, more variety is always a good thing.

Well, of all the things that you mention, DPS is not one of them. Trolls and Tyranids are typically melee attrition armies, and all your favorite MMO classes concentrate on winning the long game. As I've said before, that pretty much spells Resserectionists, to me. Seeing as you have also shown 0 desire to play humans, I'm going to recommend Horror Molly to you. Make your stuff better, make their stuff worse, and always, always have more stuff than the other guy. Skaven relies on strength of numbers and indiscriminate murder, while Convergence protects its sensitive internal mechanisms with waves and waves of disposable, recyclable troops. Most telling, however, is how you describe the kind of board control you want: either blow them off the table or bury them under your minions. That sounds like Gremlins to me! I'm going to recommend the ORIGINAL Gremlin master for you, the great Sommer Teeth Jones. He can flood the board with bodies, or he can guarantee Dumb Luck triggers to turn those disposable bodies into unholy engines of violence (who then die afterwards). He is also brings some classic Taxes as one of the most dangerous hand-destroyers in the game thanks to BIgger Hat. Riven and Viktor are both bullies, going in with shields to do damage and push the enemy off of their objectives. Sommer has a big gun and the aforementioned ruthlessly powerful Bigger Hat to threaten the enemy master with, while he brings intense healing and automatic Squeels to make the trade always go in his favor.

I would really advise against the Viktorias box if you aren't confident assembling models. There are a lot of poses that rely on lining up hands to wrists that can be a real pain to deal with. Also, they are all rather... waifish. If you are the kind of person who is rough with their models, they might prove to be a little bit delicate. The best box that I've ever seen, as far as construction goes, is McCabe, and he is a good starting master for both Guild and Ten Thunders. There's a lot of depth to the proper use of his upgrades, but they are pretty easy to get a handle on at a basic level.

Well, both the games you named are about exploration, so how do you feel about Malifaux's resident explorer, Lucas McCabe? His upgrades are literal items that he has picked up on his adventures, and his game revolves around passing them around the crew to solve problems they might encounter. He's just a big old tool box with something different for every game.

My vote is for the Gremlins, mostly because your crews are always have a cool twist on them, and I want to see what you do with them.

I think that the Watchers are the single minion most deserving of a box that will never get one...

Holy crap! I forgot you on the first page of my thread! Sorry! You already hit on the master I would recommend though: Jack Daw. Not just because you have Tormented in the title of your favorite game. Jack Daw is an immortal creature of Malifaux that draws people together from all over the Malifaux universe. Papa Loco and Jaakuna Ubume rub shoulders with Freikorpsmen and the minions of Tyrants. Plus, he gets a band in Wave 3. How cool is that? So, I am going to recommend Marcus, instead. There is no master in the game whose role and ability can change from turn to turn like Marcus can. He is really flexible enough to do anything you want to do with him (aside from just shooting people to death. He has buffs for that, though). His crew draws beasts from every faction, allowing him to bring the flavor of other factions to the table in new and interesting ways, and he buffs beasts so well, they frequently work better for him than in their home faction. He is also a man on a quest, though for the opposite goal to the Namless One: eternal life. He exists in the Arcanist faction, which is full of riotous personalities with wildly different goals and values, who are, at the same time, united to the union cause. There's a lot more reason to see Decemberists in a Marcus crew than, Freikorpsmen running with Jack Daw. I don't know how I missed that, either! Not doing so great tonight, I guess. Make that two Neverborn, Two Arcanist, and one Outcast, then

...as an Outcast player who came to Guild because I wanted better minion choices, threads like this do kind of blow my mind. Something to remember when comparing our minions to pretty much any other faction's is that, with the exception of Guild Hounds, literally every minion we have has a gun. That gun is the reason why they all come out to be slower and more fragile than the minions of other factions for their cost. Playing Guild, in my experience has been learning to leverage that ranged advantage as hard as you can. If taking hits is what you want to do, take Ryle with a Tessellating Magnet and Wardens. They aren't slow thanks to all the push effects from Socially Repressed and the magnet, and they are about as tough as you are going to get for their points cost. Don't take Flesh Constructs and Metal Gamin as the base line for minion toughness, they are the premier bullet sponges from the two factions that skew the hardest towards survivability.

I find that Pandora has a pretty strong crew bias of "things what deal with Wp". Even when she takes stuff specifically to target Df and shore up her focus on targeting Wp, what she wants to take is the Teddy, the tank with Wp interactions.

Don't be too quick to count Perdita out. It does depend on what the opponent is playing, but Perdita is the queen of single-target removal. Gremlins lists vary considerably from master to master, but once you take out their "linchpins", what is left over struggles to do anything. Finger On The Trigger also hurts Gremlin gun lines more than other lists, as they tend to damage themselves during their alpha strike turns due to Reckless and Dumb Luck, and she can very reasonably kill them if they try any funny business around her. The big problem I have using Sonnia against her is that she has a tendency to just die, especially if the opponent is bringing along Rami or the Pigapault. Df 4 just is not high enough versus Gremlins, and those guns pack a hell of a wallop. Perdita is actually who I would be most confident with, or Hoffman, if I knew the opponent wasn't going to bring Wong.

[mod hat] Cleaned up some posts that were not adding anything to the conversation. Let's all just take a deep breath and keep talking about everyone's favorite bureaucrat. [/mod hat] In reference to the original question of whether or not the crew suffers unduly from Lucius' demise, I don't personally believe it does. Most of the cool stuff Lucius does is connected to minions, yes, but he only has 3 AP in a turn. As long as you are running 4-5 minions in a list, you should be fine bringing enforcers and henchmen to suit your tastes. Just because Sonnia likes Witchlings doesn't mean she wants to take 10 of them in a game. In reference to Guild minions being too easy to kill, I think that we need to check our Guild privilege. Ranged attacks are better than melee attacks, because you can, perhaps tautologically, make them at range. For all that our variety of "dudes with guns" aren't beefcakes or blazing fast, the fact remains that we can project a lot of force without physically committing anything is an advantage that we have, that a lot of factions don't. If you are really sore about your minions dying too fast, take Wardens. They have an even Wd to SS ratio, they don't have any particular weak stats, and they have armor 1 with a trigger for 2 more. For 6ss, you don't get much tougher. No faction with access to Witchling Stalkers should really be complaining about their minion choices.

You'll have to excuse me, I saw a thread asking for Tara help and wandered over, not realizing I was walking into the godless Resser forums. Now I'm thinking about Izamu fastball with Necrotic Preparation, and literally feeling sick to my stomach. You guys are really filthy.