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About Walk, thinking about it, it states that it can't be used to leave engagement, but doesn't really ckear up what happens if you get into engagement during the move, not when starting. I'd probably tighten the wording so going in and out of engagement in a single walk isn't even debatable.

The pics I've seen are hard to read, how does charge, interact and desingage work please? Also, fine with the red, not so fine at the lack of simetry with the black, hopefully there is something in play to mitigate a flipped BJ at a cost

The change was due to theme and practicality of hiring options. But those things happen is what I'm emphasizing. I'm convinced characteristics will also change during testing, specially with the versitale characteristic. As for tjose saying they won't buy anything, good, you shouldn't. It's on Wyrd to decide if the give information that is subject to change to incentivise purchases, I wouldn't do it personally and just accept that there will be a drop in sales from Malifaux till 3rd comes out and is sort of a passive nudge to get people who want to spend to jump into the other side train.

Faction has happened and I certainly remember a very big swap, though it was earlyish testing for new models. Characteristic changes have also most definitely changed on testing, onryo did not start with retainer nor did Izamu with spirit.

I'll say it now, rotating models is a horrible idea in a miniature game, don't expect it. Closest thing you could get is a cycle of card updates for models with some resculpts, but an edition change already pretty much does that. Yes, rules bloat is a very real danger, and steps are already being taken about that. If themed crews are done properly, you can probably pass a book or 2 without getting anything directly sinergistic with your crew whike releasing 2 new masters with their themed pieces. This also increases design space by a lot. The rotten belle will be a Seamus and Molly toy, hiring out of them I hope will be enough of a penalty that hirung one in any other master is a bad idea. But in the future it is deemed necessary to get lure into mcmourning crews in theme, they can now release the yappy dog which is packing lure (the main selling point of a belle) without the risk of invalidating the belle. As for Dead Man's Hand, I don't expect them to be that balanced in the long run and if they are, I don't expect them to get much support, what I do expect is that all 4 masters will come back in a year or two in some shape or form be it in Malifaux, The other side or both. It's more of a "fluff needs time to get where we want to reintroduce these models, have dmh to tie you over in the meantime". But I could be wrong on this one.

@Mason a couple of questions if I may. The hiring out of keyword penalty, will que it scale? It's not the same to increase the cost of a 4ss model to a 5ss than it is for a 11ss one to 12ss. Currently expensive mercs are very much preferable to cheap ones and at a certain point it's not much of a penalty at all. So if Yasunori ends up not just being a damn fine Oni but amazing in general and the penalty is only 1ss, we'll be back to a fifth of the crew of every master being the same. Also, any news on how books with tbe new rules, profile updates and so on will be released at the start of rhe edition? Would be a huge book if it had everything.

Ok, cool, do hope these end up being fairly limited in number though

True but without a pass mechanic of sorts we are back to hamelin activation control shwnanigans being a possible issue. Having it be that each pass token use requires discarding a card or hell even take it a step further and you get a token at the start of the turn for every card you discard would be good ways to make passing an option without it just letting elite crews activate at the end.

ToS I'd dare say was suffering more from production of model issues than rule development. Can't really release a new game with no models. Malifaux doesn't have that issue. Also, if they are doing demos in a few days, I'd say it means they are confident at least with the core rules, so betas will be less about building the house and more about getting a good paintjob.

Well, I'm late as all hell to this party... Sorry if I rethread old ground. Ok, first off, I'm keen on the edition change. 1.5 to 2 was a good transition and I do hope this one delivers as well. I also really hope themed is frankly just better than mix and match for 2 reasons. First, if everything is being released at the same time and themed crews aren't more obviously powerful than non themed, testing is going to be hell, way too many references at this point. The second reason is that it will bring more table variate in practical terms, I agree with what Fetid said, though I've been out of the loop, that certain pieces are omnipresent (I've heard the legend of Yasunori and on my ressers a belle or nurse were always a given while on my 10T there would always ve a 10T bro), so I'd rather 10T bros were only good with Misaki for example instead of an every crew because suddenly Willy and metal gamin are actually worth a damn on Mei Feng crews and so on. Also, for those mentioning warmachine, Malifaux has always been very themed, so it doesn't feel as artificial making every master be their own minifaction. I'm keen on using a pure tormented Jack Daw and Leveticus who both I only have since I like their style without feeling like I'm gimping myself. I do fear for unthemed models though, I mean, outside of Leveticus, who does Dead Rider go with? On more of a curiosity front I'm also wondering if everything will be released in a single book or what. It will be a very thick book without any fluff. Or maybe faction anthologies compiling all the fluff. Also good call on releasing pdfs of all the cards, edition changes rub people the wrong way without stuff like that. As for the dead masters I can live with it but would appreciate oficial proxy rules for mainstream masters, as in I can use my Nicodem to represent transmortis guy for example. On another front, frankly, all of the out of comision models I think have good odds of coming back due to fluff. Lilith is just a prisoner as well as Ramos and Nico certainly is on the good side of the Grace Spirit, so him coming back as a lich isn't that much of a streetch. Losing dual faction access is more annoying though, but if themed crews are the be all, they can at least be played efficiently I would hope with just their stuff. Maybe even allow taking 2 diferent faction masters crews on tournament. Anywho, looking to see how things develop and sorry if stuff I asked about is already known.

High River Monk will remain a non choice, there are still a lot of 5 SS models that are better than him in the faction. Fuhatsu may actually reach usability at 9 SS with his personal upgrade, I mean, at that point you are getting a hyper tanky model between hard to wound 2, Armor 2 and 8 wounds that can use soulstones and can shoot decently or punch your lights out, certainly looking more solid than somebody like Sidir at this point. His inability to get any third AP since his 0 is crap and no pushing him around still stop him from being an amazing option (I´d still rather pay extra, get Izamu with melee expert and + to damage in tow) but I´d say he is takeable at this point. Dawn Serpent at 9... well meh, I´m still not that inspired to take it. It´s ranged is nice but not amazing and his melee is crap even for it´s cost with no sort of AP multiplier on it´s 0 action. Still no access to recalled training to give it a big boy turn, could probably have dropped to 8 SS frankly. Thunder nerf on Misaki... remains to be seen if it was too much or not, but she certainly won´t be dominating anymore. Yamaziko on the other hand is an absolute steal at 6 ss, blast damage with reach 3 and min damage 3 is pretty nice and brace is still awesome, just a budget henchman to get some powerful niche abilities and if she dies, oh well. Ototo is also looking a lot more solid at 9SS, as long as he is in a crew that forced the enemy crew to deal with him he can get stuff done as per usual, but the little discount might make him more attractive.

Even if you were to make them rare 4, nothing stops you from taking 4 guards and 4 hounds anyway if you want a cheap brigade anyway.

Crap, forgot about that detail, ignore my comments then.

Now imagine that with them interacting! CRAZY! Yeah, I don´t expect them to break the bank, but I would not be surprised at all if they become the premmier spam minion in guild since they bulk you up, are a niusance to kill for their cost, specially when together, and can do objectives. That´s a damn fine package.

I´d say the guild guard cost reduction is pretty huge. You are getting 2 significant bodies capable of interacting that are def 6 and armor 1. They may have been crap at 4 a pop since 2 were definitely not worth 8 stones, but at a total cost of 6 stones per package, they are pretty annoying and ressilient flank objective grabbers. I mean, hounds are a bit better offensive and mobility wise, but a lot worse defensively and are only really used with McCabe since Luna lets them interact. Not saying they will set the world on fire, but it´s going to be a big deal once the dust settles I´d say.

Thanks for clearing things up on Thunder mate.

Yamaziko, Ototo and Fuhatsu -1 SS cost Terracota Warriro and Yasunori +1 SS cost Misaki I have heard that her blasts now have to be planted together, range is now 8" instead of twelve and doesn´t ignore damage reductions anymore, couldn´t confirm this with the app though since it´s doing strang stuff with her upgrade, at least on my phone.

Just had the burning need to add a cheeky reply. It tells me volumes that none of the latest batch of gremlin models get reckless and the book before that, I believe only the Swine-cursed got it. It's a rule that they probably regret very very much using so liberally during the edition change because it was a "gremlin thing" but it isn't so bad that it breaks the game, even though it sort of breaks the faction since by the admission of people on this thread, internal balance on Gremlins is crap since most of the good stuff happen to be reckless models. An extra AP is huge and 1 wd with the amount of healing on gremlins is kind of a joke, that it stacks with fast certainly doesn't help. I insist, it hasn't broken the game, but I definitely believe it does more harm than good on most of the models that have it. It's a whole other beast that you can't really just cuddle it globally and call it a day though, so cuddling Reckless would only really make sense during a "faction revision" of sorts where they commit to have a global go ahead through the whole Gremlin faction to help internal balance flatten instead of being so full of highs and lows and I frankly wouldn't expect anything like that till 3rd Edition. So yeah, it's op, but not THAT op (I despise playing against gremlins, but it´s not like it's unwinnable or anything of the sort and I also feel other factions have their fare share of op bullshit under the hood, specially with how many choices they all have at this stage of the game) and it's not like Gremlins aren't paying a price for it in feeling that half their faction can't even compete.

I'm just really happy about Tara being cleaned up, god knows she needed it. Also happy that the papa in the box has been removed, it's one of those interactions that just feels like gaming the system and also very very happy to see Lucius get some love. He is too cool to be considered so tame. I do worry about stuff like emissary upgrades after these changes since they are another form of stealth errata. Montresor buff is also welcome. Don't really see much wrong with the whole of changes, belles definitely deserved it so I'll graciously take that cuddle.

Got to echo this, the hefty discount seems to be the main deal here. It also keeps things simple and to the point commercially. TTB had a ton of fancy stuff that made the whole thing devolve into an eternal nightmare of extra costs that had no real relation so the kickstarter product itself. The resources wasted on making the frankly ugly wicked doll could have been a lot better spent on the product itself for example.

I've only dabbled on Asami, but to me it feels like she is mostly a fantastic generalist, at least if she is packing Heavenly Design. She can be VERY mobile, she can do burst damage if needed, she can burst another model to do burst damage, she can summon when relevant a model, be it as a stop gap or as a beater and she can push her own crew or the enemy crew around and she can also disrupt schemes with her healing trick. The cost she pays for all of that flexibility is that everything requires at least a 6+ to actually work which is what's making her demanding, but as long as you have a clear path every time she activates and you stick with it, you will get stuff done. It's why I don't really see a pure summoner crew with her where everything is just support and you bring your beaters, but hell, that is not a list that works too well even with Nicodem simply because of how swingy pure summoner play is, good hands and suits and you will wreck shit, dodgy hands and you just won't get anything done as much as you would like (don't get me wrong, I love Nicodem, but my usual all support crew where I summon my beaters as had mixed results when my summoning hasn't been comfortably usable).

OK, fully agree that each environment is a world, maybe I suck/face sucky people or it's the other way around or it's none of the above. I do agree that she is a horrible experience for a new player to face, but frankly, there are so many masters in the game that if you go balls to the wall with them will make any new player want to never play a game again that it becomes a huge wash to me, I remember doing a demo of the Sonnia box vs Rasputina box, Sonnia burned half the enemy crew to cinders in an activation, do I suddenly get a pitchfork because she can be incredibly demoralizing for a new player when I know she is one of the easier masters to take down for me because of how badly she deals with being bumrushed? To me, Reva is just a "GOTCHA!" master, if you aren't sure about her gimmick, you will pay in dear blood just because your master happened to end next to a corpse for example with no real benefit, but well, she is stupidly simple and direct, so it's no surprise to me that somebody using her would get very good results against people that aren't used to her, once experience kicks in, I'm convinced her stock will drop tremendously, but hey, for all I know, she might dominate the next tourny season, I just highly doubt it and expect high control masters to be the ones making people frown because control is what I tend to feel wins games, specially in objective heavy scenarios. It just baffles me that Reva has such a huge bullseye on her and something like Marcus who I know can make one of the most oppressive crews I have ever seen or McCabe's dog brigade which is incredibly annoying to deal with or Dreamer's summoning festival of fun seem to not be a big deal now that people have gotten used to them.

I've done both and I assure you I have not seen this crazy op that dwarfs all. But hey, what does my personal experience account for when compared to yours, right?

I may be misunderstanding, but you make it sound like Revisionist History affects anybody else outside of Nellie. Only damage flips on Nellie can be cheated down. As for the rest of your comments, mostly agree. I've seen Marcus do absolutely disgusting things and nobody is taking out a pitchfork nowadays. I just assume that all the new toys being well, new, as put a huge light on them and for some reason Reva is the main focus even though I think like you and that she is middle of the pack at best. I mean, Christ, why is Reva suddenly making everyone scramble for anticorpse tech all of a sudden? I would have expected Nicodem to be more than enough of a reason to consider anticorpse tech against ressers, Nico is one of those models that I'm amazed doesn't get that much attention even though he can do so much evil stuff with regularity. And I just have to insist, doing 9 damage a turn for a master is not impressive when I can field another master that also does 9 damage that ignores armor as a 0 action and gets me a Flesh Construct out of the deal, I just don't get how Reva is a big deal but McMourning is a chump suddenly when frankly, McMourning projects more damage in at a similar distance with proper set up, he does require more stuff focused on his thing, but Reva doesn't really do anything all that special compared to the original resser bruiser outside of her force projection. I mean, she is not as one dimensional as Lady J, she can at least push stuff, but being a scary beater took a big chunk of her design space and that's pretty undeniable. She is the queen of consistent damage, outside of Hard to Kill, if you connect you will do 3 damage at least, I just don't feel it's something that you can be all like saying "yeah, this is totally baller and much better than summoning whatever the hell I want based on the situation while making it activate immediately after me with fast!".

Got me there, brainfarted to M1 Perdita who I think did actually have Wk 7, but I do believe the freebie push more than makes up for it. Thanks for correcting me though.