Marcalla

As long as its more readable than the puppet wars deck. That thing is horrible to try to read from across a table. That being said there are a few "custom" decks here and there that people have made for Malifaux. And if you have enough friends you can have your own custom decks made through several card manufactures. In the same way you can get custom faced dice from manufacturers such as chessex. Granted you would need your own art. I'm really surprised that more people haven't jumped on this yet, it seems like a great idea and there always seems to be demand whenever I go to tourney's or game stores to play talk often turns to alternate fate decks.

Which is the point. If its not "common" it needs to be detailed on the card. If it is meant to be "common" then it should be listed in a "common" apendix. The problem is in the above example Lifer is only explained on Taelor and the Convict's card. If you have Mei but not those cards or have never played against such then you have absolutely no idea where to find the rules for it. What I would say to the folks at Wyrd. If you aren't going to put an explanation of an ability on the card itself such as the case Lifer on Mei, then there needs to be an explaination, a see card xxx or as a better solution, be on a list of "common" abilities.

The problem is that we've now got models with abilities that are "common" and that aren't described in a "common" space with no reference as to where we might look for said "common" ability. If you are going with "common" abilities (which I do really really like) then you need to have those "common" abilities described in the main rules appendices or at the very least a reference point on the cards to point you to the right direction.

Don't forget about Johan to go along with the miners and rail workers.

It might be nice to have a downloadable with all the "abilities" on it and in one place. Lifer and Reckless being two of more than a few abilities with no description in the basic rules documentation. (I don't have the 1.5 book)

@ 13th Warrior Whoops, so it is. I was looking at the wrong spot on the card.

@i_was_like_you Agreed, the bonus 2 cast/channel AP's are why its replaced the insidious madness in my core lilith lists. And the cupid being nephalim is awesome. I had been looking at desperate mercs given the neph characteristic via the shaman for summoning Lelu with. But if its later in the game and you need a replacement lelu/lilitu the cherub would make a handy sacrifice. Not to mention you don't need to have the BBS for it.

Whoops, Good call. Right you are. The point is the same though, you need a 9 for the cherub and a 10 for the PM.

Thank's. Its easy to overlook the cherub because Arcane Res is such a Good ability. I shelved the cupid for the PM just because of that ability. But when you remove AR from the equation with the Arcane Effigy, the cupid really becomes better than the PM in alot of way's.

So after pulling out the cards again... Differences between Cherub and PM: Movement: the Cherub has 5" walk and 10" charge (not that you really want to be charging) over PM's 4/6. Also the cherub has flight. Def: Cherub is 2pts higher with the disappear trigger for a possible 8 def. Wounds: PM has 1 less wound, but it is a spirit so it actually has one more "phantom" wound. Casting: Cherub is one higher with built in mask, the PM has built in book as well as mask but is one lower. That means transpose on any 9 for the cherub and any 10 for the PM. None of Liliths spells require the book so its wasted there. Other abilities: The cherub has a 10" ranged bow and a 12" spell that causes losers of w WP duel to either be unable to make strikes for the rest of the turn (with wp >6) or be at -3 CB for WP 6+ not too shabby really. lastly the cherub is a nephalim so can be sacrificed to summon one of the twins if needed. The PM has Arcane reservoir. nuff said. lol Final thoughts. As I mentioned before, in a straight up between the two with no other factors I generally choose the PM over the cupid. The extra card is worth much more in my opinion than the other abilities the cherub brings. However with the addition of the Arcane Effigy to the arsenal I find that the cherub is far superior as totems go for Lilith. It adds a bit of ranged support/damage to a list that is lacking ranged attacks. It is also as survivable if not more. The spirit characteristic of the PM only means it can survive 5 wounds instead of 4 for the cherub, but the cherub has a 6 def and an effective 8 def if you throw a mask. if you add in "love" to that you've got a 11 def if the model can attack you. Now you may want to be channeling Magical extension but not always and the ability to cast love and or use your bow at 10-12 inches is quite nice. So to sum up. PM if you aren't bringing the arcane effigy, cherub if you do. Its pretty much that simple. I always choose the arcane reservoir as the extra control card is invaluable.

I'm a big fan of the PM as well, though the cupid can be nice too. Especially if you also bring an Arcane Effigy (also has arcane res). Stat wise the PM and Cupid are nearly identical, the big difference is that the Cupid only has a mask in its casting, but thats good enough for transposition. The cupid does have a nifty ranged attack though which can be quite interesting Generally speaking I run the PM when I can't run the Arcane Effigy.

Add luna and 1 or 3 more guild hounds. The hounds you can sac for Lucius's re-activate and you get a stone back for luna+1 or +3 hounds since luna is a GH with the kennel rule.

@ i_was_like_you The speed of the grower's activations isn't the issue. The issue is that in timed games time runs out alot quicker than many think it will. And if your opponent is playing something trixy or just a bit slow a game can be called in turn 3 or 4. If you spend 2 turns growing while your opponent is busy racking up vps you'll find yourself in desperation and often on the loosing end. Just something to keep in mind. I quite like Desperate mercs, they have a great synergy with the BBS abilities. Coupled with Lilitu's healing your BBS can gain the needed blood tokens and hand out the extra actions and still be fully healed or close to full by the end of the mercs short existince. That being said, I often play modified versions of grow lists and love them. They can just be problematic for timed games is all. I really do want to try adding the Mother/gupps in as the possibility's are very cool. P.S. Waits for the obligatory "I've never played a timed game and not finished 8 turns, you should be able to get 6 turns with time to spare."

These lists take time to come to full effect. Which is why they aren't that great for tournament/timed games. You really can't start getting into the "meat" until turn 2. That being said, if the stars line up, you can go straight from a tot to mature in 1 activation. And remember to put your gupps into defensive stance prior to attacking them. This gives you 3 cards to choose from to mitigate when you flip a 13 for the tot's def. I also like to add Desperate Mercs as you can use Blood from a Stone to get a blood counter you may need, then when the merc is put up on the altar he can heal the BBS as his last act.

Don't forget about the arcane effigy or the primordial magic for totem/totem like models. Having extra control cards is always good, If you want to stick with the cherub, I'd look into the effigy, plus it will stay (and confer its bonus card from arcane res) after you manifest your avatar form where as the two totems will be removed when you manifest. As listed above desperate mercs are good sources of blood/corpse counters for growing with. Nekima is ok, but should be a more "used/useful" model after her errata, right now she's a bit spendy for her abilities/attention she draws. I prefer using the BBS to Nekima in grow lists under 40 points. Also don't pigeon yourself into thinking only nephalim, malifaux while crew centric should be viewed in broader terms. This will allow you to get the most out of your games. Though to start I would say sticking closer to your masters "core synergy" models makes sense. Incorporating things like sorrows, or other faction models can open up alot of alternate options of play.

Actually 2 of them paired with lilitu or the black blood shaman to mitigate the damage would work nicely. (when running him as a neverborn master that is)

I prefer the Primordial Magic to the Cherub as well. Extra control cards are always good. I have been running the arcane effigy along with the Cherub lately though. And you can always drop the cherub and go avatar form and you still keep your AR after manifestation. I don't use Nekima in games under 45 points, she's too spendy for her current rules/fragility in smaller point games. That may change when she gets "re-worked". I prefer the Black Blood Shaman for the grow portion and other support abilities (like giving a model fast).

Always activate your desperate merc first and put him in defensive stance, that way when you attack him he gets 3 cards to pick the lowest from.

I would suggest dropping the avatar form, Lilith is capable enough in normal form to do what you want. And as Rathnard said her forests are more synergistic with Waldgeist's. Also with the 2 added stones, you can hire a Desperate Merc for sacrifice to fuel your tots.

@Tograth I beg to differ slightly... I chose Joss as the example for a reason. He gains's access to Reactivate not via a spell but by spending power tokens. Re-activate is printed on his card. I don't see much of a difference from that than say the mechanical riders power cycle ability that grants him nimble, melee exper, brutal etc. Again they are both printed on the models card but gained through another ability/talent which is not a spell effect which is why I postulate that they fall under the same umbrella. I would postulate that "Power Cycle" abillity could be assimilated and thus depending on the turn the model would gain access to whatever abilites it is depending on the turn. But a model would not be able to assimilate just the nimble from the "powering up" stage. That is the point I was trying to make. I'm fully willing to admit I could be wrong, but from the explanations given in the "re-activate" threads this seems to be the correct mechanics.

As I understand it, Assimilate can only be used to gain abilities/talents that are printed on a models card, not ones they may gain as a result of other talents/abilities. Most notably you cannot gain reactivate from a model that gains it through another source or ability. You are only able to gain it if the model always has it. In example. Hoffman may not gain reactivate from Joss if he uses "Overload". I think the riders abilities would fall under this umbrella.

You my also want to consider the Arcane Effigy, an extra casting AP for Lilith is nice and it also has Arcane Reservoir. If you do the effigy rout being neverborn, you can still attach a totem and I would look at the cherub in this case. The Black Blood Shaman is another model to look into. Its an augment piece, especially for growing and augmenting tots, youngs, and matures.

I agree with you, its not quite as useful as his regular form, a little tweak would be nice. Though I was really referring to the fact that its the only model yet to be released from Twisting Fates. And every time I read his rules I can't help but think of The Monarch's suit from Showdown at Cremation Creek. ;^)

Not to mention that A-Hoffman still is nowhere to be seen. I want my "Deaths Head Panoply"...

Not to mention the practically perfect counter to 99% of Hamlin's shenanigans.