Math Mathonwy

If it goes by weakening all of our used models it will completely devastate Gremlins.

I can sortakinda see that but Stuffeds and Flyings don't have all that much in common other than that both are Undead and Taxidermist can summon both. They have very different uses. I think that the regular Piglet is much closer to the flying version. And probably superior. That said, Wyrd can change things between the last beta and release so one shouldn't take any of this as gospel before the book hits.

You did get me good there! I had forgotten that Alpha had a range (well, forgotten that it's range was more than 2") and you ordered the whole sequence very brutally. Especially since, for a brief hopeful moment I though that you were going to butcher my sucker with Marcus...

There's been a lot of brouhaha lately about Gremlins supposedly having poor internal balance due to there being a number of models which are clear winners in each price bracket. Does this differ from other Factions? Now, some of you might have noticed that I enjoy balance and tier discussions but OTOH I don't put all that much stock in them. I do believe that there are differences between models but OTOH I also believe that you mostly win or lose through playing skill and most of the time, as long as you build a functional crew for the Strat and Schemes at hand, you can make do with a couple of "lower tier" or suboptimal choices. I think that there is a somewhat unfortunate tendency to put too much emphasis on these performance differences but that said, I'd still like to hear other people's opinions. How stark is the division between great, mediocre, and lackluster in various factions and how large is the "great" pool? And also how many models from the lower tiers still have their niches and get used with a specific Master or a specific Scheme pool or whatever? Which faction has the best internal balance and which one has the worst?

How? This change doesn't affect Summoning and the Flying versions are still over costed for hiring. The sole defense of the Flying version was that they are nice as Summons in some situations.

I mean that in the current fluff she is writing for Nellie. This started bothering me so I checked. Here's an exceprt from Molly Vignette. "Disguising herself as a freelance reporter, she was surprised when the new Editor-in-Chief, Nellie Cochrane, hired her on the spot and gave her three different assignments to finish before the end of the week."

Am I remembering wrong - didn't Molly write for the Tattler now? From her vignette?

Bag of Props says: "Bag of Props: When this model declares an Attack Action or is targeted by an Attack Action, it may end the Focused or Defensive Condition on a friendly model within a6 to gain the same Condition at the same value." Am I correct in thinking if Collodi uses it to get Defensive, it will go away at the end of the turn? And if you leech another Defensive it will add to the previous one? And if Collodi then activates and takes Defensive Stance, the whole stack will last until her next Activation? Also, I suppose she can leech Defensive when she declares an Attack Action and leech Focus when she is targeted by an Attack Action, right?

Oh, naturally it makes it more likely. But you said that it "pretty much guarantees you having to cheat a card" which it doesn't seem to do according to those percentages. Or at least I don't think that a thing is guarateed to happen if it happens 54% of the time.

Belles were errataed. They used to have 8 Wd and 8 Ca. And Lure does have a TN. Wyrd thinks it's cute. Huh? Are you sure?

I dunno whether you are aware but PolishSausage is a highly accomplished and decorated tournament player who, for example, came in second in this year's Adepticon and is currently ranked number 11 in the US rankings. He probably knows a thing or two about list building

To be fair, all models in all their iterations have survived testing shakedown. That's hardly a guarantee of perfection.

I was about to say that it includes only models that non-Gremlin players complain about but then I realized that non-Gremlin players tend to complain about most Gremlin models that are played...

I'm guessing it's three Bayous from Somer and two Piglets from Lenny. Though I suppose it could also include Bayous turning into Skeeters and the Corpses turning into Stuffeds through Taxis. Not achievable consistently, though, I don't think.

Have you tried using a Taxi or Sammy for Summoning ammo for the Pult? As I really don't see a way to make it work with Sammy and with Taxi it means that you need to kill your own dudes so probably Somer. They could've introduced a hiring limit instead of a Rare value, though. I believe lame0 means relative to the other top Masters. Naturally. The differences in power are small enough to be easily trumped by skill. Making a few sub-optimal choices when building your crew won't lose you the game.

In @Bazlord_Prime's stats analysis here: Gremlins are ranked number five in both UK and US rankings. But the exact position isn't very relevant, just that they are clearly not at the top so n€rfing the whole faction as some people seem to be suggesting doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

You'd still see no Survivors because there are Slop Haulers and Lightning Bugs. This year I believe I've seen cries of n€rf on every single Gremlin model commonly used. Gremlins are now number five in tournament rankings and people hope that the half of the faction that is being used should be n€rfed heavily. I just don't know, man.

To expand on something from Omenbringer's post above - Gremlins are glass cannons. They are squishy but they do lots of damage. They also damage themselves and have ample healing. But all of this means that they are in very deep water when they are out activated. These days every faction can throw a massive superkiller into the other guy's deployment zone and a Yasunori makes short work of glass cannons. So if the Gremlins are out-activated and get hit massively first, they tend to crumple.

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised and intrigued by this reaction. Have people been using Pigapult with Stuffed ammo? I always found Concussion completely debilitating and have valued throwing the Stuffeds as opposed to using them as Ammo. And naturally throwing everything else as well, be they Piglets or Bayou Gremlins that a Summoning Master is Summoning. How have you been using it? Buy three Stuffeds as ammo and then shoot it three times per round for three rounds? Or Focus and hope for the best? And at what sort of targets? Has it been good?

That was a refreshing view of things! Interesting analysis. I'm a bit surprised that Fingers has apparently been so rare in your meta. I feel that he is at his weakest currently in GG17 and he's still good.

I would add to that list 4. As a blast-off point for damage with blast effects 5. As damage dealers against some models with annoying defensive Triggers or abilities (Incorporeal, Yin, Pandora, Collodi, Riders, etc) But of course uses 2-5 were hurt when they dealt with use 1 in such a ham-fisted way and I tend to agree with your conclusions, unfortunately. I guess time will tell.

I had a practice game before the tournament using Sammy with Ooo Glowy so Wong was free to rock both Gremlin's Luck and Do Over and that is pretty potent. In fact, a bit too potent in that I won the game on the second turn and my opponent decided to switch factions for the tournament... The dream sequence is to shoot into combat, randomize into a Stuffed, inflict moderate, Do Over, randomize into the Stuffed again, do Severe, pop the Pig, and then have two AP left. And that dream sequence is even rather likely and not all that resource intensive.

Dirty Cheater: Wong wasn't very threatened in any of the games barring the Marcus and Blessed tag team and there I healed quite a bit with it. I had a rubbish hand and missed with my attacks and then cheated down with the low cards to heal at least. I thought it useful in the first since Eliminate the Leadership was in the pool and in the second because I knew I would be facing Marcus. In the third I took it because of Close Deployment. Do Over: well, I managed to randomize to a Stuffed Piglet in games one and two but in the first I had no targets left after the Stuffed died and in the second I missed on the second shot (I believe). I also forgot to use it for cards in both games... In all the games all my targets were always in hard cover so the extra shot wasn't very useful. The cards could've been handy had I remembered them, though...

To be fair, if your sig stats are up to date, it looks like you haven't yet tried Wong with the Stuffeds, then?