Math Mathonwy

I suggest putting the Spiders on some workshoppy thingys (crates, tables, piles of rubbish and such) and then magnetizing those. Much less fiddly. Also, I really urge you to fill the gaps on the Neverborn crew. Those will haunt you if you leave them.

None of your links work (they all have those three dots and not the full addresses). Other than that, though, a huge, huge thanks for compiling this! Much appreciated Edit: You fixed them! Thank you!

That was a very fun read and the pics were great! What an utterly inspiring battle report - I feel a need to play Malifaux Thank you!

Sheesh, that looks pretty bad. The contrast between the sharp and the soft models is huge and Hungerin Darkness looks really bad. I wonder if that's a legitimate defect and that you could get them changed?

Well, I suppose it's good to know that it is apparently involuntary, then. You have a lot of habits that make conversing with you tiresome. One is that you quote people yet fail to answer them. Another is this need to frame others as extreme cases while you're the standard of moderateness. Finally, your habit of leaning towards the extremely grandiose makes conversations difficult since they turn from simple things to huge, sweeping narratives that stop making any sense when approached from the minute details that sparked the debate. Consider these things and adjust. This conversation could be framed as being between players who like tactics and those who love beer and pretzels and then paint the latter group as complete nincompoops - you believe that would result in a fruitful conversation? Do you believe that that would accurately reflect the different points of view? I don't and neither does your framing. We could add a Violet Joker that's a suitless seven except when it comes up on a damage flip - then it would ignore the normal damage track and kill both the attacker and receiver. You'd like that, right? You'd think that would be an awesome addition to the game? Why not? It would be glorious. For the Jokers to be a proper system, they need a synthesis to their current thesis and antithesis! Or is that not a useful way of having a conversation, perhaps? Flipping all severes on a negative damage flip is also out of my control and results in quite a bit of damage in some cases yet it doesn't bother me. Stop trying to apply this as some kind of a amateur psychoanalysis session and understand that I don't like the huge swings that Red Joker provides on negative damage flips. No more, no less. I'm not out to take away, say, Collette's marionette trigger or Gremlins' Dumb Luck or anything like that.

I showed the math in multiple different ways but people weren't even considering it so I saw no reason to continue try to educate people who aren't interested in putting in even minimal effort to understand. I usually get paid to educate and the students are willing to listen - no interest in doing it for free for unwilling people. You specifically kept moving the goal posts and changing the topic away from what the original claim had been but I had zero interest to engage you about those due to your obnoxious posting style. You're such a witty dude - a real asset to the forums. Edit: I won't likely be responding to this (going to Norway with my wife for a week and leaving in a couple of hours) so feel free to masturbate whatever brilliant retort/trolling you wish to this thread.

Thank you! Loved the Ifrit Qaniss review - need to get me one!

Hooray - I managed to say something new about this! I've tried to get this idea forth a couple of times, but it might've gotten a bit lost. But seriously, thank you for posting that, it made my day :1_Happy_Puppet1:

I'm "whining" because RJ is so rare and so drastic that it upsets one game out of three. If it came up every game I would have less of a problem with it.

Death Marshalls, original Lady Justice, Executioner, Witchling Stalkers, Seamus, Sybelle, Mortimer, Bishop, Silurids, original Perdita, original Hamelin and Nix, original Rasputina - want me to go on? And I'm not saying that James is utterly without merit or anything like that. I for example liked his Ten Thunders Brothers a lot. It's just that he is doing a lot of sculpting and it seems that he isn't spending enough time to really hone them (as evidenced by the piece in the OP - I mean, it's a bad concept but the sculpt is very rough as well) or else he just has a very different aesthetic than me. But there really are stuff in his sculpts that I consider mistakes. His work on long hair, for example, is really unpleasing to me.

He's kinda the reason I don't like Wyrd minis nearly as much as I used to. Before Malifaux I bought some Wyrd minis solely for the looks. These days... Eh. Maybe 10% of Wyrd minis have the "wow factor" anymore for me when it used to be 50-70%. Now, I realize that lots of people like James's work, but for me, personally, his work has curbed my enthusiasm for Wyrd and Malifaux more than any other single issue.

It's an utterly horrid sculpts of a bad concept (btw, sculpted by the guy who sculpts most of the Wyrd stuff these days). If the sole point of the model is the boobs one would think they should at least be sculpted somewhat nicely. And the hair is (as all the sculptor's long hair) subpar at best. Utter dreck quality-wise and the idea is bad as well.

Let me just say how absolutely awesome it is to see you back here!

I don't think that's a feasible goal, really. It is not your or anyone else's (moderators and admins excepted, naturally) place to tell people what they can talk about and I really doubt that this poll will do it. I will note, however, that at least I won't be bringing RJ up for a while, since I'm rather spent here. But herein lies the difference. You see, I'm not an evil person. I honestly have the good of the game in mind and I'm utterly convinced that the current RJ leads to negative play experiences and is detrimental to the game. I also naively believe that if I can show the logic of how I came to this conclusion people will see it for themselves and come around. Alternatively, if someone can present strong reasons for me to reconsider my views, I will change them. Yes, really! The trouble is, that the evidence that people have shown has been very shoddy. Note though, that it is a valid opinion to just prefer the RJ as is - realize all the peculiarities it has and the huge swings it causes and then prefer it. That is valid. I do not agree with it, but I won't try to persuade such a person otherwise. But if people bring in faulty reasoning, like drawing lots of cards causes the deck's potential to dilute, I'll engage these logical fallacies and naively hope that by showing them as fallacies, people might change their minds. (Though in that case I was eventually exhausted when people without maths degrees don't bother to consider what I'm saying even after I tell them that I do basically this stuff for a living - that was a bit of a bummer, really.) I really don't see the poll result as that conclusive. First of all, these sorts of polls are super-easily manipulated. A charismatic person talks about this in their gaming group and frames the discussion a certain way thereby convincing 20 of his friends to come and vote a certain way. Second, many people have mentioned that they voted 'no' but they would still like to see some change made to the H2W mechanic. Third, people are naturally resistant to change and therefore people on the fence on the matter will vote 'no'. This is especially pertinent in the case of people who really haven't deeply considered the issue at all. Fourth, many of the people on the no-change camp frame the question in a false light. Ratty, an extremely respected member, framed the issue as people who like some randomness and people who hate all randomness. Now, someone undecided reads this and presses the no-vote faster than light since now 'yes' reads as an utterly terrible proposition. There were also others who framed the opposition as being in favour of eliminating the Red Joker utterly. Viewpoints that no one brought forth. Finally, and most importantly, Wyrd make the decisions. If the proponents of the change can convince the Wyrd people, through logic, that some change might be useful, they will make it if they see it as being good for the game. As for strats and schemes, I don't have much to say, really. Some people consider the possibility of killing your own Master in order to keep a message from being delivered as an integral part of the strats and schemes. It's a preferential difference where I can not engage a faulty view and it's so different from mine, that I don't wish to have that conversation. As for SS costs, I'm convinced that Wyrd won't be changing them. I really, really wish that some of the weaker choices were made competitive but I don't think that Wyrd will and I can see the logic in that. Errata of that style is very unliked in minis games and I can see Wyrd wishing to avoid that. It's not super-needed since too-weak doesn't break the game. So I don't see an SS cost discussion as useful. This is a valid suggestion, IMO.

I have never seen the argument put forth, that RJ as a balance for H2W is bad since RJ doesn't happen every game, so the balance doesn't work on a single game basis. Several people have made the claim that that balance is important but none have even tried to refute the counter. The problem, as I see it, is that you're not discussing the issue. You're doing a meta-discussion and trying to silence people, not engage them. This isn't meant as an attack on your person, but rather a note on the way you have conducted yourself here, and I'm afraid I can't formulate this more nicely (which grates me since I have nothing personal against you), but the thing is that Sandwich, though I disagreed with him rather strongly, added a lot more to the discussion, IMO, than your tack of going "Shut up!!! The poll tells you to shut up!!" so I'm not seeing you stopping "the discussion" with me as much of a loss, I'm sorry to say

But the problem is that without RJ showing up H2W is, according to many people here, too powerful. But RJ showing up "balances" H2W only in every second game or third game usually. Having an ability be balanced across games but not within a single game is bad design in a game which is supposed to be played once (as opposed to being a campaign-based). When the RJ shows up, H2W is too weak, when it doesn't, it's too powerful. "RJ has been done to death" has been way more done to death. It adds absolutely nothing. If you're not interested in the conversation, go away. Maybe start other conversations if it tickles your fancy, but telling others to not have a conversation is rude and stupid. Or you may stay, but don't expect me to stop talking just because you're not interested (but still read and post).

The poll doesn't prove anything of the sort. Designing games isn't a democratic process (and thank God for that!). What were the poll results for Alp cuddle? For the bury change? For the Levi change? I wouldn't be at all surprised if a poll would've shown the same percentages. How much of a problem? How did you quantify the amount of problem I or other people have with Red Joker?

But that's a false dichotomy. I have never seen anyone espouse a view like that on these forums. All the people who want change just want to lessen the effect of the Red Joker, not eliminate it. Please don't frame the issue like that since it really, really clouds it. I will go for some cheese now.

Yet those are some of the things that are being put forth by the proponents of status quo. That's neither here nor there. I'm not saying that. Stop lying. I don't lose games, I win them, and I hate winning with the Red Joker. And, even if I had said something like that, it wouldn't be a contradiction. You utterly failed to respond to any of the points I raised. Also: man what

So you play in a way where none of your important models are ever hit? Ok. Plus the ini flip, plus the flip to actually hit. At a minimum. It isn't about semantics, though. Your first statement was that it is easily avoidable and second you say that it shows up where it pleases. That doesn't make any sense. If you want to flower-coat your statements, fine, but do understand that when you do so in a non-sensical way in a vain attempt to persuade the unwashed masses of proletarians through some attempt at serpent-like hypnosis, the more erudite and sagacious of your verbal sparring partners are going to call you on it. OK, you're the Seamus expert so I must be horribly mistaken, but I really honestly thought that Live for Pain's little gun symbol meant that it can't be used in close combat. Yeah yeah, yawn. You say that you're addressing my final statement, yet you spout something incomprehensible that doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything. 40k is less random than Malifaux. It isn't a better system, but it is less random.

It's not avoidable. The fact that it happens rarely, doesn't make it avoidable. You're not making any sense here. Also note that it is never 1/54 since your deck never has 54 cards in it. Ah, here you acknowledge that it is unavoidable. Cool. So it's a balancing mechanic? You're utterly contradicting what you said earlier. His powerful healing mechanic doesn't work in close combat with non-living, non-undead models. How many tournaments have you won? Ah, OK, so it's again avoidable. Wonderful. You're not making any sense! How are you supposed to avoid it? By never getting hit? Good luck with that. And other than that, the basic nature of RJ is that it is indeed unavoidable. The fact that it only messes up every third or tenth or hundreth or whateverth game is beside the point. So yeah, as you so nicely declared at the start, your argument indeed was a waste of time. ---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 AM ---------- Many people seem to think that the RJ thing is a legitimate drawback for the H2W. Another common thought is that RJ is fine since it happens so rarely. People only remember those momentous occasions when it killed something supremely important, but in reality it happens rarely, so it's OK. Both of those thoughts are utterly backwards. RJ being as rare as it is doesn't balance H2W meaningfully in a single game. Having a "balance" mechanism that kicks in only every third game is outright horrible. It means that the ability is overpowered in two games out of three and underpowered in one game of of three. You can't balance stuff over several games since people play against different opponents and all in all consider a single game as a complete experience (there's no campaign system in Malifaux, nor anything else that would suggest that you're supposed to be playing three games in a row or something). If RJ happened every game I probably would have less problem with it because then it would actually be something that can be anticipated and should be prepared for. But now it's rare enough to turn a game upside down every once in a while, which isn't something that you can reasonably prepare for.

Dude, what the hell?

Just as it's human nature to remember momentous occasions, it is also human nature to favour status quo. So how much of a majority is, in your opinion, enough to dismiss the concerns? Also, the question of the poll affects the answers. If the question had been, for example, "Would you think it's a bad idea that Red Joker would cause mereley severe damage on negative flips?" the percentages would likely be very different. Or "Would you think it's a bad idea to change Red Joker damage to Severe + Weak?". I'm not trying to invalidate the poll, just noting something. I'm pretty sure that had a poll been made about the Alp cuddle or the Bury cuddle or, heck, even the Gravedigger cuddle the percentages would've favoured status quo.