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Help me learn to play Lucius

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Got another game in yesterday, I did a simple exchange and took out two guards in favour of another Austringer (I'm playing it painted, that somewhat dictates my choices). 

I felt that I had a better grasp at the positioning and using Lucius to move everything now, but we didn't get very far into the game. My opponent seemed to think he was playing Warmachine and sent both his Strongarm Suit and Kilroy after Lucius. Lucius spent a lot of stones, that he got back from saccing a guard and harming another, and then the Peacekeeper and the Austringers tore both his hitters into little pieces. Having lost his Bodyguard model and both his hitters and me only being down a guard and a few wounds, he conceeded. If nothing else, he learned that Austringers are hella good.

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Well done! The opponent sending in their bodyguard model seems a bit rash. :) 

A small note (probably mostly for your opponent): Playing games to their conclusion is often the best way to learn more. You will still get a feel for what models can accomplish and you can get some practice in how to max your vp and try to block enemy vp to achieve the max diff win or to keep the score difference low.

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On 4/23/2018 at 1:02 PM, jchrisobrien said:

I played three games with Lucius this weekend to start preparing for the Capitol City Meltdown in May.  I won a game of Squatter's, tied a game of Symbols, and lost a game of Squatter's.

The Scribe: Two point minion who can lay down scheme markers is sweet and when he can do it while engaged thanks to Lucius is super sweet.  

The Jury: always awesome........

Mr. Graves: I thought he was OK, but my opponent (long time Neverborn player) doesn’t like him much in my crew.  .......

Doppelganger:  She was pretty useful, being able to use her far away from Lucius. .....

Thalarian Queller: almost an auto take vs Neverborn to trump Hooded Rider and incorporeal things.  They are good vs. Ressurs too, less so in other factions. 

Ferdinand Vogel: He didn’t blow me away, but the idea of a model that you can swap out each turn if they don’t die has a LOT of potential......

Guild Lawyer: not too flashy, but I think he has hidden depths.  Fees can be handy, so can giving out slow, and tanking other models with highest authority. Combined with the Jury and Lucus letting the Lawyer hand out fees several times could really make a model like Nekima/Hooded Rider cry.

Beckoner: A good model that I need more practice with.  Lures are great in GG2018 so well worth practicing with.

I trimmed some of your post down for brevity. Most of what you listed (except the Queller & Jury) can be taken in either Neverborn or Guild so I will try to talk both versions- just my opinion- as I play/have played Lucius in both. 

In Neverborn I prefer the Primordial Magic over the Scribe just for the additional card cycle and the flexible scheme marker on a critical turn is a bonus. The Doppleganger is the closest thing to an auto-include for me in NB for all that she provides (copying/Ill Omens/being a mimic). I rarely use Graves though- typically my non-minions in Lucius are Nekima, Doppleganger, and Lilitu though I will occasionally drop Nekima if I don't need the hitting power in favor of two other models for a larger crew in a more interact heavy game. I don't use the Beckoners in either NB or Guild preferring Lilitu for the Lure and then Doppleganger can copy that or Nekima's MI attack as needed. I do dig the Lawyer in either NB or Guild- for the cost, the stats, and abilities they are great. I have run 2 in a list several times but most of the time I end up with just 1 as the crew ends up being very card intensive with what I play for NB. 

Other models I like with Lucius in Neverborn include Lelu (occasionally), Stitched Together, Terracotta Warrior, Guild Guard, and the Thorn. The Guild Guard are cheap activations, are cheap scheme marker droppers, can keep Lucius in the stones, and he can order them around. The Terracotta protects my key Enforcers, swaps out the Surprisingly Loyal for something useful (Condescending then Legalese), can protect a Stitched from killing itself, and can keep Lucius in the stones. The Thorn is another Lure(ish), is a minion so gets Lucius' buffs and is scheme markers and card draw. Lelu (when taken) is there for more card cycle and his push so he can do things like push a Supply Wagon, push himself with his (0), then push the wagon again; he is pretty slow initially but with his push he can drop 2 scheme markers in a turn when you need it. 

Lucius is very card hungry in NB- I think more so than in Guild- so a lot of what I include are things that can give him more cards (and I always take Deep  Pockets). Once the Guild Investigators come out one of those will be mandatory for me as well. The biggest decision for me in NB Lucius is based on all factors (Strats/Schemes/Opposing faction) whether I need Nekima or can focus more on flexibility with a greater range of minions. 

 

On the Guild side of the equation I almost always end up running Guild pure and as much as I want the Doppleganger have a lot of trouble fitting her in. With Guild I typically only have one Henchman and everything else is minions to maximize my flexibility with utilization of Lucius' abilities and the buffs he provides the crew. In a world with only 1 Henchman I almost always end up with Francisco because he buffs Lucius (or another key model), is a good beater, and Finesse adds so much to his survivability. In the right scheme pool I might consider Phiona instead (w/Transparency & Lead Lined Coat) but as good as the Jury is in most games she just doesn't make the cut for me with Lucius. Frank buffs Lucius a lot better, Phiona works better with the other stuff I take and does more for me. 

I do like the Queller and think he offers a lot to the crew- card draw, stripping suits with the suppression markers, and Enchant Weapon on either Frank or a Thrall is just brutal when your opponent is counting on armor to protect a key model. The Scribe is an option in the Guild version but most of the time I run without a Totem and use the Guild Guard (or other models) for my stone soaks. I like Lawyers in the Guild version for the same reasons as in NB and the Guild Investigator is going to be an almost auto include for me in the Guild version as well as the NB once the model is released. 

 

I have picked up Vogel but haven't assembled and painted him yet. He looks cool and I could see occasions where he could be really good but I don't know that he can replace the Thralls for me in Guild or one of my other expensive models in the NB version. I will reserve judgement on him until I have tried him a few times. 

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In nvb there is competition from the pukesnake but in guild the scribe just seems like an auto-include to me. It's 2ss for a minion that is usuqlly counted as significant when it matters and can add a great debuff to an enemy model and even has both suits built in so it's pretty reliable as long as the enemy can't ss away the damage. If you use it as stones for Lucius you have gotten some free activations for no cost in ss.

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I will have to give him a try. I started off playing Lucius in NB so ever really looked at him. The DF 4, WD 4 always kind of turned me off but if he is trailing the herd it probably doesn’t matter anyway.

Plus he is a 2 stone activation.....

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Good commentary on the Mimic models.  I'll have to rotate Phiona in with the other henchmen.  I don't need to rely as heavily on minions with Lucius' upgraded card.  I'm losing some respect for the thralls, because with all the min 3 damage out there they still die in four hits.  A monster hunters takes that many blows (from a higher soulstone model) and saves me three stones.  Thralls aren't bad, just squishier than you think.  Lucius will be showing up as part of the Iron Scorpius challenge this weekend, I'll let you know how it goes!

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1 hour ago, jchrisobrien said:

Good commentary on the Mimic models.  I'll have to rotate Phiona in with the other henchmen.  I don't need to rely as heavily on minions with Lucius' upgraded card.  I'm losing some respect for the thralls, because with all the min 3 damage out there they still die in four hits.  A monster hunters takes that many blows (from a higher soulstone model) and saves me three stones.  Thralls aren't bad, just squishier than you think.  Lucius will be showing up as part of the Iron Scorpius challenge this weekend, I'll let you know how it goes!

Are your thralls never healing?  I get them healed way more often than the monster Hunters

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My thralls almost never heal.  My main opponent is a Ressur player, so he often out activated me.  He will hit me with a kentauroi, give me poison, then follow up with a shikome.  He can reliable put out 12 pts of damage between the two models, before I get to activate again.  I also don't fight many Wp6 models, or get to shoot a target AND hit it in same activation.

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So I'm thinking about using Lucius in the following game very soon:   Corner Squatter's Rights, Eliminate the Leadership, Take Prisoner, Set Up, Covert Breakthrough, Dig Their Graves.  My core list for this is leaning towards Lucius (deep pockets, condescending) The Scribe, Frank (debt, wade in), The Jury, (numb), and two Monster Hunters.  That leaves me 14 stones to allocate.  Phiona could be a good exchange for The Jury; with Transparency I can threaten covert or dig or set up.  A watcher and a thrall could also fit.

 

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1 hour ago, jchrisobrien said:

So I'm thinking about using Lucius in the following game very soon:   Corner Squatter's Rights, Eliminate the Leadership, Take Prisoner, Set Up, Covert Breakthrough, Dig Their Graves.  My core list for this is leaning towards Lucius (deep pockets, condescending) The Scribe, Frank (debt, wade in), The Jury, (numb), and two Monster Hunters.  That leaves me 14 stones to allocate.  Phiona could be a good exchange for The Jury; with Transparency I can threaten covert or dig or set up.  A watcher and a thrall could also fit.

  

I love the Jury, but I do question what it will do for you in this list.  I usually don't end up getting good value with her unless I have someone to use the masks things with.  Have you ever tried a santiago bomb with lucius and her?

EDIT: or if you want to get really crazy, Vogel?

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You bring up a good point.  She could help Lucius with a few masks, but that's it.  I used Santiago once with the Jury in a Perdita list and it was Glorious!

 

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2 minutes ago, jchrisobrien said:

You bring up a good point.  She could help Lucius with a few masks, but that's it.  I used Santiago once with the Jury in a Perdita list and it was Glorious!

 

Combining it with Lucius's ability to get him another shot, and to get him into place with lackey's from a position of relative safety is really good.  I've taken down yas in one turn with it before. 

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I want to try Samuel with Lucius soon.  They both "walk and talk" the first round, then Sam is 12" up the board and can just start rapid firing!

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41 minutes ago, jchrisobrien said:

I want to try Samuel with Lucius soon.  They both "walk and talk" the first round, then Sam is 12" up the board and can just start rapid firing!

Besides the high card cost, it might actually create a time that making Sam use his flaming bullets is worth it.  (Probably not, but I can dream)

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On 5/1/2018 at 10:39 AM, jchrisobrien said:

My thralls almost never heal.  My main opponent is a Ressur player, so he often out activated me.  He will hit me with a kentauroi, give me poison, then follow up with a shikome.  He can reliable put out 12 pts of damage between the two models, before I get to activate again.  I also don't fight many Wp6 models, or get to shoot a target AND hit it in same activation.

Outside of that one player and crew though Thralls tend to get a lot of mileage. 

I use them often/almost always and they never fail to perform. Impossible to Wound, good MI attacks with a ranged attack as a backup. Never have to worry about failing on Commanding Presence. Great target for Issue Command and dropping a scheme marker can give them more attacks too. As a bonus the Terracotta can protect them too. 

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I got some reinforcements now, thralls will hit the painting table ASAP! Trying to limit myself to playing painted, it is a good way to force myself to get painting projects done.

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Him with the new Guild Guard errata is kind of gross. With the scribe’s support, you have Df 7, Armor +1 models that are 3 stones each. I recently ran Allison Dade with him too and her casting in to an engagement where the Guards were holding the opponents beaters at bay was glorious. 

I like the Lawyer at 5 ss, but I’m still struggling to fit him in. His stats are great, so maybe with Jury to double up on fees?

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Spam guild guard all you like, you'll run into Pandora or Sonnia and it's game over. :D

It's more worthwhile to bring 3-4 of them for more activations.

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2 hours ago, Ozymandias79 said:

Him with the new Guild Guard errata is kind of gross. With the scribe’s support, you have Df 7, Armor +1 models that are 3 stones each. I recently ran Allison Dade with him too and her casting in to an engagement where the Guards were holding the opponents beaters at bay was glorious. 

I like the Lawyer at 5 ss, but I’m still struggling to fit him in. His stats are great, so maybe with Jury to double up on fees?

Even before the errata I used to run a list with a scribe, 5 gg, dade brick.  They all bunched up and if you opponent wasn't careful you got damage on them from swinging in dades aura, then healed them with dades other aura.  It was glorious.  The scribe was such a target though.

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1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Spam guild guard all you like, you'll run into Pandora or Sonnia and it's game over. :D

It's more worthwhile to bring 3-4 of them for more activations.

I never said spam. My current list has 2-3 and still has room for 2 Thralls. 

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3 minutes ago, Ozymandias79 said:

I never said spam. My current list has 2-3 and still has room for 2 Thralls. 

I was probably confused by the term gross. I was definitely projecting old threads where people have claimed spamming them is great, I think the only one who said spam in this thread was me. :D 

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Just now, Ludvig said:

I was probably confused by the term gross. I was definitely projecting old threads where people have claimed spamming them is great, I think the only one who said spam in this thread was me. :D 

I have run the 16 gg with lucius.  I don't like it as much as 16 gg with LJ.  Havent run it with Sonnia, perdita, or Mccabe yet, but I imagine those all have some interesting possibilities too.

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On 5/1/2018 at 9:04 PM, 4thstringer said:

I love the Jury, but I do question what it will do for you in this list.  I usually don't end up getting good value with her unless I have someone to use the masks things with.  Have you ever tried a santiago bomb with lucius and her?

EDIT: or if you want to get really crazy, Vogel?

Whats a Santiago Bomb? I get you can discard a card for a Mask for trigger Happy, but 2/3/4 DMG spread dosent seem worth it for me or am I missing something else? Like damaging him for  +2 SH and+flip to DMG?

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